For Thunderbolt (4) devices. USB-C head-to-head comparison.

[sam_adams]

If you look at the images of the non-Apple cables carefully, you will see that there are only four conductors connected to the USB-c connector. That makes those cables simple USB 2 cables. They lack the two, three-conductor SDP (Shielded Differential Pair) cables that allow for USB 3.x data transfer speeds. Two of them don't have the full pinout of a standard USB-c connector, either. They would have done a better job with that presentation if they had used real USB 3.x/4 cables with USB-c connectors on them as comparison.

 

[blueone]

TB4 is way overkill for any audio application short of ... 64 channels @384khz or something. Probably even that, not going to run the #s tho. It can be useful for video, but the cable runs tend to be really short... a couple years ago I had a horrible time finding a thunderbolt extension cable for my monitor, at the time none actually existed and the longest TB4 cables were about 12". Not super useful.

Thunderbolt 4 is mostly about video storage devices, but I agree with you about only short length cables being available. Even for Thunderbolt 3, it's tough to find one longer than six feet.

 

[Axo1989]

As well as being actual/active TB4, the point of that particular cable is that it is 3 metres long, which has additional technical requirements to work properly. Not sure if anyone else offers that (excluding fibre solutions) .Apple do sell a somewhat cheaper, shorter one as well.

Also note the article is promotional material for their scanner/service.

I bought that cable a while back, needing the length. It is solidly-made and works as expected. The USB-C plug is a good fit and stays connected. Passing audio/video (to DAC and TV) and charging the MacBook at the same time, it replaces a USB-C Digital AV adaptor, plus HDMI, USB and charge cables that did the job previously. So now I can put a TB dock+SSD at the other end to feed all the things downstream. Also, 3-metre USB cable wasn't entirely reliable, so this setup is both tidier and more stable. And with strong fabric sheath over s/steel jacket, it is cat-proof. So far.

Since this is ASR, I'll provide subjective audio impressions: robust and well-textured, with thunderous bass coming from an inky black background. I mean it's a black Thunderbolt cable, right?

 

[DanielT]

I thank you all for the answers. Now I know a little more about something I actually knew nothing about. Other than that I've heard the word Thunderbolt flutter past in some context.

I was really annoyed by the level of knowledge in this video. They leave out way too much information, or probably don’t fully understand it themselves.

But those who wrote the Wikipedia article seem to understand. A fairly comprehensive description of Thunderbolt that starts like this:

Thunderbolt is the brand name of a hardware interface for the connection of external peripherals to a computer. It has been developed by Intel, in collaboration with Apple.[7][8] It was initially marketed under the name Light Peak, and first sold as part of an end-user product on 24 February 2011.[1]

Thunderbolt combines PCI Express (PCIe) and DisplayPort (DP) into two serial signals,[9][10] and additionally provides DC power, all in one cable. Up to six peripherals may be supported by one connector through various topologies. Thunderbolt 1 and 2 use the same connector as Mini DisplayPort (MDP), whereas Thunderbolt 3, 4, and 5 use the same USB-C connector as USB does.

Thunderbolt (interface) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[DJNX]

Thunderbolt 4 is mostly about video storage devices, but I agree with you about only short length cables being available. Even for Thunderbolt 3, it's tough to find one longer than six feet.

The max length for Thunderbolt 3/USB4/Thunderbolt 4 are indicated in the standard itself. You can't have any of the three aforementioned cables certified (or officially within the standard) if you go above 3 meters, if I remember correctly.

When you go above 3 meters, you are basically buying a custom active solution, and it gets expensive really quick.

Why would any other generic TB4 cable not work?

You can use other TB4 cables, but as I said, you have to benchmark the cables yourself, or look for benchmarks online.
If you just want to order the cable and don't worry about that, you buy the Apple cable.

Things can get a bit more confusing when you consider Thunderbolt 4 certification can be achieved with only 32Gbps and 15w.
Apple's cable is Thunderbolt 4 at full specs: 40Gbps and 100w, at 2 meters.

 

[blueone]

The max length for Thunderbolt 3/USB4/Thunderbolt 4 are indicated in the standard itself. You can't have any of the three aforementioned cables certified (or officially within the standard) if you go above 3 meters, if I remember correctly.

When you go above 3 meters, you are basically buying a custom active solution, and it gets expensive really quick.

I know what you mean. Corning sells a 15M TB3 optical cable for $389 on Amazon. I've read some anecdotal reports that it works with TB4 docking stations (one is on Reddit). I'd need a very compelling use case to spend that kind of money on what is really an unsupported solution.

 

[voodooless]

I've read some anecdotal reports that it works with TB4 docking stations (one is on Reddit)

Probably, they are backwards compatible. the cable is 40gbps, so full bandwidth. Should be fine as long as you don’t need power.

 

[Elitzur–Vaidman]

I know what you mean. Corning sells a 15M TB3 optical cable for $389 on Amazon. I've read some anecdotal reports that it works with TB4 docking stations (one is on Reddit). I'd need a very compelling use case to spend that kind of money on what is really an unsupported solution.

Probably, they are backwards compatible. the cable is 40gbps, so full bandwidth. Should be fine as long as you don’t need power.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I'm pretty sure that TB4 is just TB3 with all (or at least most) of the optional TB3 features mandated.

 

[blueone]

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I'm pretty sure that TB4 is just TB3 with all (or at least most) of the optional TB3 features mandated.

You're correct that TB3 and TB4 are similar, but there are specification differences. Here's what Intel has to say about it:

Thunderbolt™ 3 vs. Thunderbolt 4 Technology – Intel

Explore differences between Thunderbolt™ 3 vs. Thunderbolt™ 4 technology, including data transfer speed and the ability to connect dual 4K monitors.

www.intel.com

Thunderbolt is an improvement over the original definition of USB, which was a bus (a shared transfer media) with a tree topology (one message at a time). Thunderbolt is a switched network with point-to-point links, but it's modeled architecturally after ATM (minus the small cell definition), so it doesn't have an application message interface of its own, it's meant to encapsulate and transfer other protocols. Now that USB4 is based on Thunderbolt, which now oddly not a bus but still called a bus, the entire kludgy mess of USB, TB4, PCIe, and DisplayPort makes it difficult for me to think about it for very long. Yuck.

 

[Elitzur–Vaidman]

You're correct that TB3 and TB4 are similar, but there are specification differences. Here's what Intel has to say about it:

Thunderbolt™ 3 vs. Thunderbolt 4 Technology – Intel

Explore differences between Thunderbolt™ 3 vs. Thunderbolt™ 4 technology, including data transfer speed and the ability to connect dual 4K monitors.

www.intel.com

Thunderbolt is an improvement over the original definition of USB, which was a bus (a shared transfer media) with a tree topology (one message at a time). Thunderbolt is a switched network with point-to-point links, but it's modeled architecturally after ATM (minus the small cell definition), so it doesn't have an application message interface of its own, it's meant to encapsulate and transfer other protocols. Now that USB4 is based on Thunderbolt, which now oddly not a bus but still called a bus, the entire kludgy mess of USB, TB4, PCIe, and DisplayPort makes it difficult for me to think about it for very long. Yuck.

Thunderbolt was an improvement over the original USB specification, but TB4 has the same max specifications as TB3. TB3 has lots of optional specifications that are mandatory in TB4. Max data transfer rates are the same between TB3 and TB4.

 

[DonH56]

Active cables include internal ICs that perform signal and power conditioning. Things like power regulation/filtering, signal equalization, and perhaps retiming. The EQ is often an active filter, programmable and with multiple taps. Those ICs are expensive, require a circuit board to support them and their passive components (vs. just connecting wires to connector pins), and easily boost the price 10x or more from a simple passive cable. It's basically a transceiver in each end of the cable, which allows greater lengths and/or higher data rates by maintaining (restoring) signal integrity to the receivers in the components.

Comparing an active TB4 (or any active) cable to a passive USB3 (or whatever) cable is apples and oranges. But maybe that was the point, to highlight that Apple's cable is an active design, and not just a passive cable?

 

[voodooless]

But maybe that was the point, to highlight that Apple's cable is an active design, and not just a passive cable?

No, they were rather oblivious …

 

[pseudoid]

Not to be un-Apple but my early-2023 PC-build was based on the most current "Z790" motherboard (w/an 13th gen i7 uP).

Graphics
1 x HDMI® port**
2 x Intel® Thunderbolt™ 4 ports (USB Type-C®) support DisplayPort*** and Thunderbolt™ video outputs****
* Graphics specifications may vary between CPU types...
** Support 4K@60Hz as specified in HDMI 2.1.
*** Support 8K@60Hz as specified in DisplayPort 1.4

I use a PCIe GFX w/dual DP outs. The MoBo also provides a DP "INPUT" port (TB4), for digital artist workflow.
Our NUC10 (media player) stuffed inside the entertainment system is also outputting TB4 via USB-C.
No fancy cables are required but I have never used TB4... yet!

 

[pseudoid]

Get ready for a whole new generation of USB.
First announced in 2019, "USB4” (official spelling lacks a space, but we’re using one in this article to reflect the way readers search) is finally appearing in some shipping computers, including Apple's new M1-powered iMacs, its M1-based Macbooks and Mac Mini and laptops with Intel 11th Gen Tiger Lake laptops. You won't find a ton of devices marketed as USB 4 at the moment, but a new generation of USB 4-powered docks and peripherals is trickling in.
USB 4 promises a host of benefits that include faster transfer speeds, better management of video bandwidth and optional compatibility with Thunderbolt 3.
Main Benefits of USB 4
The new USB 4 standard has three main benefits over prior versions of USB.
40 Gbps Maximum Speed: By using two-lane cables, devices are able to operate at up to 40 Gbps, the same speed as Thunderbolt 3. The data is transmitted in two sets of four bidirectional lanes.
DisplayPort Alt Mode 2.0: USB 4 supports DisplayPort 2.0 over its alternative mode. DisplayPort 2.0 can support 8K resolution at 60 Hz with HDR10 color. DisplayPort 2.0 can use up to 80 Gbps, which is double the amount available to USB data, because it sends all the data in one direction (to the monitor) and can thus use all eight data lanes at once.
Compatible with Thunderbolt 3 devices: Some, but not necessarily all USB 4 implementations will also work with Thunderbolt 3 devices.
Better Resource Allocation for Video, PCIe: In lieu of alternative mode where the other interface takes over the connection, USB 4 devices can use a process called "protocol tunneling" that sends DisplayPort, PCIe and USB packets at the same time while allocating bandwidth accordingly.
So, if the video only needs 20 percent of the bandwidth to drive your 1080p monitor that’s also a hub, the other 80 percent will be free for transferring files from your external SSD which can operate over either USB protocol or PCIe....
This almost goes without saying: USB 4 will only operate over the Type-C connector.

Link

 

[Andysu]

eyes rolling at this snake oil