Fane 15-300TC 15" full range speaker based project

[ppataki]

The 12" version is also extremely great! @Rednaxela

Fane Sovereign 12-250TC project measurements

One of my friends has built a pair of floorstanding loudspeakers using 12" Fane 12-250TC fullrange drivers. I am posting this on his behalf and with his permission. Cabinet is sealed with the below parameters: Made of 19mm baltic birch plywood using internal bracing (unfortunately I do not...

audiosciencereview.com

I would encourage you to give that a try

 

[ppataki]

Some of you were asking me to create Spinorama measurements of these drivers

Here you go with no DSP first:

And with Dirac:

I am not entirely sure how to read these but any comments would be welcome
Thank you
FYI @ernestcarl

 

[ernestcarl]

Some of you were asking me to create Spinorama measurements of these drivers

Here you go with no DSP first:

View attachment 349741

And with Dirac:

View attachment 349742

I am not entirely sure how to read these but any comments would be welcome
Thank you
FYI @ernestcarl

How about more details like distance and how far away from boundaries was the speaker?

Room influence is pretty significant in all curves below 500 Hz so if it were me, I'd probably just have gated the responses or fully truncated information below that point.

The phase also appears suspect (measurement error? -- acoustic timing reference with the USB mic also doesn't quite work so well when going far off-axis unless one were using a second speaker unit as reference) but nevertheless it did improve post Dirac EQ -- not quite linear enough, though, say, at least preferably within +-30 to 45 degrees from 500 Hz to 10 kHz.

Below are the labels for the trace colors:

The listening window looks fine, except for some peaking/overlap around 5 kHz. I'd would not boost that dip completely flat myself and leave it partially unfilled. It's probably caused by diffraction, and as I previously said, you can't really "correct" diffraction errors.

When you leave the dip as-is other relevant curves like the listening window, power response and early reflections become favourably more linear as well.

There also appears to be a notably abrupt skew in the DI around and a little above 1 kHz.

The colored directivity plot is too blurred. Far more informative would be showing some select horizontal and maybe also a few of the vertical family of curves e.g. 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 degrees etc.

 

[ppataki]

Thank you for your comments @ernestcarl !

I performed 5 measurements (0-15-30-45-60 degrees horizontally) in the MLP which is 284 cm away from the speakers. Sweep measurements 20Hz-20kHz, no timing reference
I used the left speaker which is 50/70 cm away from the corner walls (I know it is not ideal but I am afraid that is the best I can do)

Here are the lines with no DSP:

And with Dirac:

 

[ernestcarl]

Thank you for your comments @ernestcarl !

I performed 5 measurements (0-15-30-45-60 degrees horizontally) in the MLP which is 284 cm away from the speakers. Sweep measurements 20Hz-20kHz, no timing reference
I used the left speaker which is 50/70 cm away from the corner walls (I know it is not ideal but I am afraid that is the best I can do)

Here are the lines with no DSP:

View attachment 349903

And with Dirac:

View attachment 349904

Thanks. You already know this, but your non-ideal room measurements is far away from being representative of CEA 2034 standards so we can only draw very loose conclusions based on what you've shown thus far. Actually, because it's a a single driver speaker, you could have still gotten away with quite representative very nearfield measurements, too. Really, only the in-room on- and off-axis and listening window curves are probably what we can sort of make use here as a limited reference. But much better than nothing, of course!

 

[ppataki]

Thanks. You already know this, but your non-ideal room measurements is far away from being representative of CEA 2034 standards so we can only draw very loose conclusions based on what you've shown thus far. Actually, because it's a a single driver speaker, you could have still gotten away with quite representative very nearfield measurements, too. Really, only the in-room on- and off-axis and listening window curves are probably what we can sort of make use here as a limited reference. But much better than nothing, of course!

Yes, I know but this is the best I can do unfortunately
If I have the time I will take a stab with the very near-field measurements (with no DSP)
I am happy with these results already because this way I will be able to compare my new sphere project with the big Fanes - since the measurement methodology will be the same (even if it is far from ideal, at least it will be apples to apples comparison)

 

[colinb4987]

@ppataki Thanks for your responses on my other thread, they led me here.

If you were to do this project again, what currently available drivers would you pick? And how suitable do you think they would be for a 7-point surround system? I'm a little hesitant about the beaming of FR drivers, so looking to ensure I mitigate/manage it at the design stage

 

[ppataki]

@ppataki Thanks for your responses on my other thread, they led me here.

If you were to do this project again, what currently available drivers would you pick? And how suitable do you think they would be for a 7-point surround system? I'm a little hesitant about the beaming of FR drivers, so looking to ensure I mitigate/manage it at the design stage

For a home theater use-case where you have one or more subwoofer(s) to help with the very low frequencies a smaller FR driver will be sufficient
You can aim for the 6-8 inch models
I would recommend pretty much any Markaudio models (I have experience with the CHR120, CHN110, Alpair 10p, Alpair 12p models, they are all excellent)
The 8" SB Acoustics model is also great

Put any of these in a sealed cabinet, apply DSP accordingly, set crossover around 80Hz based on the measurements and you will be blown away by the 'bubble effect' that the full range drivers will provide you with (totally immersive experience, really)
Note that it will be a one-man cinema though! FR speakers will provide that bubble sensation only in the MLP (main listening position) - the others will hear a totally different movie

 

[colinb4987]

Well, I've got two choices (both relying on DSP for the whole system):

1. 7x smaller markaudio FR drivers assisted by 5x woofers (skip the woofers on the rear surrounds) OR
2. having 7x 12" Fane 12-250TC only

the room itself is relatively small (basically 3.2 x 4.5m), so for film viewing it's only ever going to be four people or so on a sofa or beanbags. With the 15"s, how bad is the >1kHz drop-off at 15/20/30°?

Re the markaudio Alpair 10p specifically, any suggested sealed cabinet volume for this one?

 

[ppataki]

Well, I've got two choices (both relying on DSP for the whole system):

1. 7x smaller markaudio FR drivers assisted by 5x woofers (skip the woofers on the rear surrounds) OR
2. having 7x 12" Fane 12-250TC only

the room itself is relatively small (basically 3.2 x 4.5m), so for film viewing it's only ever going to be four people or so on a sofa or beanbags. With the 15"s, how bad is the >1kHz drop-off at 15/20/30°?

Re the markaudio Alpair 10p specifically, any suggested sealed cabinet volume for this one?

For the 10p I would recommend a sealed box with 4.5 liters with heavy filling.

When you say 7 FR + 5 woofers you mean 5 subwoofers or you mean 5 mid-woofers to support the FRs + you will have some subs?
I would try it without any woofers, just the FRs + the sub(s) - that would do, especially in such a small room
Check out this project, very similar: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/dos-subwoofer-with-4x-6-5-woofers.33425/
(at the end of the first post you will see a picture of the HT system using 10p and 12p drivers)

 

[ppataki]

With the 15"s, how bad is the >1kHz drop-off at 15/20/30°?

You can see that here: https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...ange-speaker-based-project.39025/post-1884587
Pretty bad.....

 

[colinb4987]

I was hoping that by complementing the FR drivers with 3 to 5x 15"drivers, XO at something like 300Hz, plus DSP, I could cover all bases.

 

[colinb4987]

You can see that here: https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...ange-speaker-based-project.39025/post-1884587
Pretty bad.....

Thanks, rules that approach out. If I put the speakers within Dolby guidelines, my MLP will be 23° off-axis to the LR, on-axis for C, SR, SL, and 45° off-axis for RR/RL

 

[ppataki]

I was hoping that by complementing the FR drivers with 3 to 5x 15"drivers, XO at something like 300Hz, plus DSP, I could cover all bases.

Well, yes you could do that but I would start with a much simpler approach and then you can amend it if necessary

You could have the 7 FR speakers (whichever Markaudio for example) in sealed boxes - those can easily produce 100-105dB (and even more) at 80Hz at 1 meter
You cross them at around 80Hz to one sub which could be a 2x15" or 2x18" dual opposed one, like this one.
Or multiple (3-4) smaller subs placed strategically and optimized individually using MSO or Dirac Bass Control

 

[Jukka]

That's a Volkswagen Passat.

 

[mhardy6647]

That's a Volkswagen Passat.

eh?

 

[Jukka]

eh?

In the first post, the picture with plywood, they are on a Volkswagen.

 

[Rednaxela]