Fail with Maop 11.2 matched pair

[MusicIsADream]

After a very successful build with markaudio pluvia 11, I attempted a second DIY project.

Maop 11.2 matched pair in a 17 l box with 9,5cm long bass reflex tube. (King of Swingers Medium Design).

As you can see in the close to the speaker made left & right measurements in green and red the build is nearly dead above 9k. (the difference between left and right is possible due to lazy microphone positioning... not looking for perfection right now)

The blue line is in room at the listening spot. (With a ton of eq I get nice bass but the highs are very difficult to bring in.)

My guess is that I used to much damping material. I used on back, top and one side long floor carpet.

If I am 100% optimistic that it would help I could "shave" it down, as it is firmly glued.

If is the surface or the length of the carpet the problem?

Or could be something else the cause of the missing frequencies? Any experience?

 

[312elements]

did the response look like that before EQ? Here’s my guess and it’s just a guess. The stuffing isnt the problem. Those Maop 11’s and really any Markaudio 11 beam above 5k or so. Maybe even a little lower. Try measuring again without EQ (to confirm there’s not some weird EQ anomaly, and measure the response with the microphone perpendicular to each speaker. Apologies if that was your current strategy. That looks an awful lot like a Markaudio off axis response.

 

[MusicIsADream]

did the response look like that before EQ? Here’s my guess and it’s just a guess. The stuffing isnt the problem. Those Maop 11’s and really any Markaudio 11 beam above 5k or so. Maybe even a little lower. Try measuring again without EQ (to confirm there’s not some weird EQ anomaly, and measure the response with the microphone perpendicular to each speaker. Apologies if that was your current strategy. That looks an awful lot like a Markaudio off axis response.

Yes it is the measurements before eqs.

The microphone was facing the middle of the speaker in about 15cm distance with left / right measurements.

For the blue line both speakers with a distance of round about 1m for the microphone in the center.

I will test another amp today and can make some pictures of the measurement position.

 

[alex-z]

Looks like a normal response to me.

Everything below 400Hz is caused by room modes and boundary reflections, acoustic treatment will help some and adding a subwoofer would help below 100Hz.

The 500-1200Hz region is the natural response of the driver and can be fixed with EQ.

The dip at 3500Hz is diffraction, should be easy to fix by flush mounting the driver and rounding your cabinet edges.

The falloff above 10000Hz and cone breakup at 17000Hz is what you naturally get with a 6.5" full-range driver. You could EQ the cone breakup, but the falloff cannot be addressed without adding a tweeter.

 

[MusicIsADream]

Thanks already for the responses.

I measured again with mic in 10cm distance and proper axis (left speaker) :

The result is quite the same also when I compare my old heed(green) amp vs my new topping (yellow) :

This is the measurement from markaudio send to me with the speakers :

Any further guesses what went wrong?

 

[MusicIsADream]

After 10 rounds of REW eq optimisations and one bass and high eq, done by hand, the speakers measures like this:

Green is without eq in listening position and yellow with Eqs.

REW has issues in getting the frequencies 1k to 2k right. It shifts the discrepancies from left to right but does not smooth them out.

BTW. Typing in REW results into AUNBandEQ with Soundsource on a mac is very annoying. Missing the REW +EQ APO interplay here.

 

[ppataki]

There is definitely something wrong here, these drivers shall start rolling off after 20kHz (the CHN110, the Pluvia 11 too and the MAOPs are based on the Pluvia series so they shall behave similarly)
Have you tried in a different room too?
Try just one speaker, on-axis, zero DSP and from 1 meter in a different room

 

[MusicIsADream]

There is definitely something wrong here, these drivers shall start rolling off after 20kHz (the CHN110, the Pluvia 11 too and the MAOPs are based on the Pluvia series so they shall behave similarly)
Have you tried in a different room too?
Try just one speaker, on-axis, zero DSP and from 1 meter in a different room

Without the measurement, but by ear the roll of is also present in a different room.

In my first DIY I used the pluvia 11 and they make it easy to 20kHz.

Could it be the damping with the long floor carpet?

Or something with the electric? I used a 0,75 mm cable to connect the maops to the banana plug socket and some old soldering tin.

 

[ppataki]

Without the measurement, but by ear the roll of is also present in a different room.

In my first DIY I used the pluvia 11 and they make it easy to 20kHz.

Could it be the damping with the long floor carpet?

Or something with the electric? I used a 0,75 mm cable to connect the maops to the banana plug socket and some old soldering tin.

View attachment 388746

I would remove the driver from the cabinet and perform a free-air measurement - that should show the correct high end response and then you would know if the issue is driver-related or cabinet-related
I would use speaker cables with a thickness of at least 2.5mm2 (I always use 4mm2 - Sommer Orbit mk2)

 

[312elements]

After 10 rounds of REW eq optimisations and one bass and high eq, done by hand, the speakers measures like this:

View attachment 388732
Green is without eq in listening position and yellow with Eqs.

REW has issues in getting the frequencies 1k to 2k right. It shifts the discrepancies from left to right but does not smooth them out.

BTW. Typing in REW results into AUNBandEQ with Soundsource on a mac is very annoying. Missing the REW +EQ APO interplay here.

This is a lot of EQ (boosting) down low. Did you break these in per the manufacturer instructions?

 

[MusicIsADream]

This is a lot of EQ (boosting) down low. Did you break these in per the manufacturer instructions?

Haven't get any instructions with the speakers. Right know they are running on low volumes and also they will do in the future.

Where can I find the official instructions for breaking them in?

 

[312elements]

Haven't get any instructions with the speakers. Right know they are running on low volumes and also they will do in the future.

Where can I find the official instructions for breaking them in?

I've always done 200hrs of acoustic music at gradually increasing volumes (I know I know). The MarkAudio website lists the following info

Running in: Carefully run the drivers at low volume using light music (NO artificial signal generation of any-kind) for the first 100 hours. After this period, gradually increase to normal listening volumes with the introduction of music that contains some bass. The driver will reach optimal performance at around 800 hours of play time.


I am a sample size of one, but I've done 5 Mark Audio builds and the only one I had problems with was the one that I didn't follow the break in instructions. It actually bent the cone as in the cone deformed (rippled) .

 

[MusicIsADream]

I would remove the driver from the cabinet and perform a free-air measurement - that should show the correct high end response and then you would know if the issue is driver-related or cabinet-related
I would use speaker cables with a thickness of at least 2.5mm2 (I always use 4mm2 - Sommer Orbit mk2)

All right on the weekend I can try this out.

 

[MusicIsADream]

I've always done 200hrs of acoustic music at gradually increasing volumes (I know I know). The MarkAudio website lists the following info

Running in: Carefully run the drivers at low volume using light music (NO artificial signal generation of any-kind) for the first 100 hours. After this period, gradually increase to normal listening volumes with the introduction of music that contains some bass. The driver will reach optimal performance at around 800 hours of play time.


I am a sample size of one, but I've done 5 Mark Audio builds and the only one I had problems with was the one that I didn't follow the break in instructions. It actually bent the cone as in the cone deformed (rippled) .

My pluvia 11 got blasted with bass right from the start... still sounding amazing. But yes, sample size of one.

As I already have pushed massive bass loads (on mostly low volumes) through the maops in the last 24 hours I think it is to late to go back.

Would be happy if they burn in in the next few days and become less harsh (today already smoother than yesterday).

Beside burning them in, I realised how importent it is to sit a little bit outside the triangle or the high frequency area won't be detached from the speaker. This means a strong angulation for my desk set up.

 

[ppataki]

Beside burning them in, I realised how importent it is to sit a little bit outside the triangle or the high frequency area won't be detached from the speaker. This means a strong angulation for my desk set up.

Can you please elaborate on that a bit?
Thank you

 

[MusicIsADream]

Can you please elaborate on that a bit?
Thank you

The speakers stand on my desk. When I place them so the center of the speaker directly points at my ear, it would be sitting "on" the triangle.
If the imagened lines from the center of the speaker cross in front of me (10-20cm) the stereo image is optimal for me.
If they cross behind me, the hihat of the drums for example stays on left or right speaker and does not "jump" into the middle of the stereo mix.

I tested the optimal stereo Triangel position with Songs where the hihat is near to the middle of the stage. If you move with your head closer or further away it should be simple to hear, if it stays on the speaker or moves to the stereo mix.

 

[ppataki]

The speakers stand on my desk. When I place them so the center of the speaker directly points at my ear, it would be sitting "on" the triangle.
If the imagened lines from the center of the speaker cross in front of me (10-20cm) the stereo image is optimal for me.
If they cross behind me, the hihat of the drums for example stays on left or right speaker and does not "jump" into the middle of the stereo mix.

I tested the optimal stereo Triangel position with Songs where the hihat is near to the middle of the stage. If you move with your head closer or further away it should be simple to hear, if it stays on the speaker or moves to the stereo mix.

Thank you, that is interesting, never heard of it - I will give it a try!
I currently sit exactly at the tip (or top) of the equilateral triangle

 

[312elements]

My pluvia 11 got blasted with bass right from the start... still sounding amazing. But yes, sample size of one.

As I already have pushed massive bass loads (on mostly low volumes) through the maops in the last 24 hours I think it is to late to go back.

Would be happy if they burn in in the next few days and become less harsh (today already smoother than yesterday).

Beside burning them in, I realised how importent it is to sit a little bit outside the triangle or the high frequency area won't be detached from the speaker. This means a strong angulation for my desk set up.

There are a lot of opinions on break-in processes and I'm skeptical about most things in life, so YMMV. It might be worth inspecting the cones for damage though. @ppataki you have a lot of experience with thee too. Do you break yours in or just let them loose?

 

[ppataki]

There are a lot of opinions on break-in processes and I'm skeptical about most things in life, so YMMV. It might be worth inspecting the cones for damage though. @ppataki you have a lot of experience with thee too. Do you break yours in or just let them loose?

I never follow that recommended process TBH

I just load them right away although not with high SPL

 

[312elements]

I never follow that recommended process TBH

I just load them right away although not with high SPL

Thanks!