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even $75 hidizs s8 betters DCS bartok

spiritofjerry

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You mean all dacs having a sinad of around 109db (Bartok measured around 109db sinad ) should sound same ?
If all other componentry is equally well implemented, then that SINAD is sufficiently low enough that it's inaudible, as has been repeated to you over and over and over again in this thread.

If that so then why one should buy this $17500 dac ?
They like being parted with their money? There's no logical reason.
 
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aj625

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If all other componentry is equally well implemented, then that SINAD is sufficiently low enough that it's inaudible, as has been repeated to you over and over and over again in this thread.


They like being parted with their money? There's no logical reason.
Equally well ? How does one know that ?
 
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aj625

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Well, SINAD usually is that measure, so it's mostly redundant.

What exactly are you trying to argue, again?
Now you very well know what I wanted to argue ! It's the measurements and measurements and measurements. For any subjective statements you have to ultimately fall back to objective things just like you already did here. If it's sinad for measuring the "equally well implemented thing " then going by that logic why a dac having more sinad should not have things implemented better than dac having low sinad.
 

spiritofjerry

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Now you very well know what I wanted to argue ! It's the measurements and measurements and measurements. For any subjective statements you have to ultimately fall back to objective things just like you already did here. If it's sinad for measuring the "equally well implemented thing " then going by that logic why a dac having more sinad should not have things implemented better than dac having low sinad.
The point that you can't seem to accept is that if it's inaudible, then it really doesn't matter does it?

I'm bowing out of this thread because you keep going around in circles with your posts. You've had your answer, time to accept it.
 
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aj625

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The point that you can't seem to accept is that if it's inaudible, then it really doesn't matter does it?

I'm bowing out of this thread because you keep going around in circles with your posts. You've had your answer, time to accept it.
As per you sinad is measure of well implementation and it's still inaudible ? Now who is going in circles ? In fact my point is also the same. Good sinad means better implementation.
 

kchap

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To sum up:
  • DAC, good. In the top quartile but, there are better DACs. Not sure about the upsampling DSD.
  • HP amp, good. Might have trouble with the newfangled planar headphones. Again there are better amps.
  • Price, ridiculous. Unless dollar per kg is your metric.
 
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aj625

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one thing i cant understand. headphone amp sinad is almost same in the measurements despite graph looking much better.
 

617

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Frankly, if you could afford it I doubt you'd be arguing on ASR.
 
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aj625

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Frankly, if you could afford it I doubt you'd be arguing on ASR.
Why would I spend so much on a product when there are better ones at much lower price. Like many I keep following measurements on asr. No way I would spend so much on a not so good measuring products. In fact I recently bought hidizs s8 based on asr review and I can say s8 was a revelation to me. Such a cheap dac when fed through uapp the bit perfect stream could make headphone and iem sound so good that I don't feel like using a desktop set up.
 

Mart68

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Why would I spend so much on a product when there are better ones at much lower price. Like many I keep following measurements on asr. No way I would spend so much on a not so good measuring products. In fact I recently bought hidizs s8 based on asr review and I can say s8 was a revelation to me. Such a cheap dac when fed through uapp the bit perfect stream could make headphone and iem sound so good that I don't feel like using a desktop set up.
There's better measuring DACs at a lower price but that won't mean they sound any better than the DCS. There's a limit to how perfect any DAC can be and that was reached many years ago.

The reason people buy DCS is because they think it sounds better simply because it's so expensive. Then they add an external re-clocker to make it sound even better. Yes, it's all a total crock but that's how high-end audio works.
 
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aj625

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There's better measuring DACs at a lower price but that won't mean they sound any better than the DCS. There's a limit to how perfect any DAC can be and that was reached many years ago.
how ?
 
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aj625

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There's better measuring DACs at a lower price but that won't mean they sound any better than the DCS. There's a limit to how perfect any DAC can be and that was reached many years ago.

The reason people buy DCS is because they think it sounds better simply because it's so expensive. Then they add an external re-clocker to make it sound even better. Yes, it's all a total crock but that's how high-end audio works.

There's better measuring DACs at a lower price but that won't mean they sound any better than the DCS. There's a limit to how perfect any DAC can be and that was reached many years ago.

The reason people buy DCS is because they think it sounds better simply because it's so expensive. Then they add an external re-clocker to make it sound even better. Yes, it's all a total crock but that's how high-end audio works.
Ok, how many years back that limit was reached ? What was that limit ? How that limit was decided ? If all modern dacs are beyond that limit then does that mean all dacs should sound same ? If not then what are the factors for creating the difference in sound ?
 

BDWoody

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You mean all dacs having a sinad of around 109db (Bartok measured around 109db sinad ) should sound same ? If that so then why one should buy this $17500 dac ?

You're catching on, but asking repetitive questions...

Ok, how many years back that limit was reached ? What was that limit ? How that limit was decided ? If all modern dacs are beyond that limit then does that mean all dacs should sound same ? If not then what are the factors for creating the difference in sound ?

Here's one of many threads where you can read into it a bit more. This has all been covered extensively, so using the search tool can help reduce the repetition.

 
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aj625

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You're catching on, but asking repetitive questions...



Here's one of many threads where you can read into it a bit more. This has all been covered extensively, so using the search tool can help reduce the repetition.

So you mean with increasing sinad sound quality does not improve ?
 

Veri

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So you mean with increasing sinad sound quality does not improve ?
16-bit, 44kHz standard was made with ~96dB SINAD in mind, maybe a bit over 100 with good dithering to the 16-bit content.

Unless you can hear "hi res" super content which only the most trained, golden ears people can; the CD spec is fine. DACs hitting that spec are far and wide, a solved problem..

Modern devices like the ADI-2 from RME win over customers with rich set of features, included head-amp with wide compatibility, etc... it's also nice to know you have a large headroom in digital bits before audio will ever deteriorate, in which a top performing 123dB SINAD DAC will give you absolute peace of mind...
 
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aj625

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16-bit, 44kHz standard was made with ~96dB SINAD in mind, maybe a bit over 100 with good dithering to the 16-bit content.

Unless you can hear "hi res" super content which only the most trained, golden ears people can. The CD spec is fine. DACs hitting that specs are far and wide, a solved problem..

Modern devices like the ADI-2 from RME win over customers with rich set of features, included head-amp with wide compatibility, etc...
So dacs with over 96db sinad should sound same ?
 

Veri

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So dacs with over 96db sinad should sound same ?
Added a paragraph about headroom. But yes in reality the features, piece of mind and pride of ownership is what really sets apart the top DACs.

"Sound quality" is not a major concern. Not really. Not when you do the testing in a rigid way (so not sighted switch where you think it is " a little " better, that's not quantifiable or reliable).
 

kchap

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Ok, how many years back that limit was reached ? What was that limit ? How that limit was decided ? If all modern dacs are beyond that limit then does that mean all dacs should sound same ? If not then what are the factors for creating the difference in sound ?
1/ Ok, how many years back that limit was reached? 10 to 20 years ago.
2/ What was that limit? 16/44100.
3/ How that limit was decided? ABX testing, initially the DSD vs CD PCM debate. Later, comparing to 24/96000 to 16/44100.
4/ If all modern dacs are beyond that limit then does that mean all dacs should sound same? Yes.
5/ If not then what are the factors for creating the difference in sound? Jitter. Choice of anti-aliasing filter, for younger ears than mine. Poor recording technique, some DACs have more headroom to deal with inter-sample overs. There will be other reasons.

Some of what I have said is contentious. Amirm has written some good articles on how you can learn to pick differences. If 16/44100 is borderline I would say 24/48000 is very defendable. For me, having the latest DAC gives me a nice warm glow ergo, it must sound better. Well, to me at least.
 
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