even $75 hidizs s8 betters DCS bartok

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

human ears and brain are much more sensitive than any measuring equipment currently available

‍
Ok I’m out.

 

[aj625]

‍
Ok I’m out.

do you mean least count of analyzers is not improving with time ? what they could not measure few years back now these can measure it. i think this is enough of hint for you.

 

[abdo123]

you mean there is no point of better measurements after a certain limit ?

No, except for S/N ratio there is no point in improving THD performance beyond a person's personal threshold.

@Pdxwayne is one of the few people in this forum that has been able to consistently hear distortions louder than -70 dBFS.

there was also another member that could tell the differences between different DAC filters because they could hear up to 21KHz.

other than these two, no other member has shown that they're capable of detecting linear distortion in music below 1% or 40dB SINAD.

i think at 110dB SINAD you can drop the linear requirement.

HOWEVER, ESS IMD humps can be pretty severe rising close to -60 dBFS, that's non-linear distortion at high amplitude. it's usually very concerning to me and i think some people might hear it

 

[BDWoody]

human ears and brain are much more sensitive than any measuring equipment currently available.

Ummm...no.
Do you understand how small these ratios are?

you mean there is no point of better measurements after a certain limit ?

The shout-o-meter thread from one of our forum treasures, @RayDunzl .

Helps put the size of these noise/distortion numbers into perspective.

The Shoutometer

We've all seen the Sound Pressure Level decibel reference tables where you have "quiet room", "chainsaw", "jet engine" and so on. While that is handy for estimating increased loudness in decibles, it didn't help me when thinking about the measurement levels obtained around here when measuring...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Veri]

you mean there is no point of better measurements after a certain limit ?

Glad you arrived to a "sound" conclusion by yourself...

 

[Robin L]

you mean there is no need of improvement to sinad by new technology in the coming years ? human ears and brain are much more sensitive than any measuring equipment currently available. but brain need to be trained and it should free from biases like r2r dacs are better, good measurements sound clinical and blah blah.

Ah . . .

No, far from it. Human hearing is nowhere near as refined as some think, particularly among the demographic [older gents with money] most inclined to claim that human hearing is superior to sophisticated measuring gear. By the time someone reaches 50 years of age, the highest frequency they can detect is easily less than 20khz [making 24/192 playback silly, as its supposed benefits would be inaudible to everybody].

The idea that human hearing is more sophisticated than measuring equipment is the primary myth of high-end audio, pure, virgin snake oil. By all means point out the ridiculous price of DCS gear. But understand that the audible effects of its miniscule distortion are well outside the range of human hearing

 

[aj625]

Glad you arrived to a "sound" conclusion by yourself...

Exactly that's what I wanted to say. If there is no effect of numbers beyond a certain limit then are people spending $17500 just to show off or for the looks or for the heavy metal extruded chassis or for that silver facia with sexy volume knob or for fancy tech named ring dac which is of no use or for blah blah or just for the heck of it can't believe upto what extent people have been brainwashed by DCS that people don't want to listen anything negative about it. Don't you people ever see the 5 figure price ? Or like your ears your eyes have also lost the ability to discern things ?

 

[Killingbeans]

you can google about bartok being bright and you would find a number of threads for same. also check headfi fb post by golden sound for bartok measurement where a member commented about bright sound of bartok.

Probably because it's just a square box and doesn't have swoopy lines on the front plate like the rest of the dCS products

 

[Killingbeans]

Don't you people ever see the 5 figure price ? Or like your ears your eyes have also lost the ability to discern things ?

I think you're missing the point. Everybody in this thread thinks it's a stupid product, but we are also pointing out that it's most likely audibly transparent in any practical sense. It doesn't perform better than a $9 Apple dongle, but there's a good chance that it won't perform worse either in a real life situation. Any way you look at it, it's still a worthless piece of gear, unless you want to spend $17491 on the jewelry aspect and the functionality.

 

[617]

why not ? if odd harmonics "dominate over even harmonics" then timbre is affected negatively even if at -110db.

Do you have any idea how quiet -110 db is?

 

[Koeitje]

Do you have any idea how quiet -110 db is?

Wait, you guys don't get annoyed by a dog barking 200km's away?

 

[Χ Ξ Σ]

I don't want to jump into the usual audibility threshold dissension.

I am just curious, the Bartok being too bright compared to WHAT?

 

[renaudrenaud]

I don't want to jump into the usual audibility threshold dissension.

I am just curious, the Bartok being too bright compared to WHAT?

D10BALANCED ? Don't know, I just have the Topping, not the dCS.

 

[FrantzM]

you mean there is no point of better measurements after a certain limit ?

Yep.

 

[spiritofjerry]

you mean there is no need of improvement to sinad by new technology in the coming years ?

No, there really isn't. Only for vanity's sake.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Do you have any idea how quiet -110 db is?

It is like 6 microvolts if your DAC puts out a 2 volt max signal.

 

[617]

It is like 6 microvolts if your DAC puts out a 2 volt max signal.

What's the largest life form you can kill with 6 microvolts?

 

[Blumlein 88]

What's the largest life form you can kill with 6 microvolts?

Somehow that wasn't the first question that popped into my mind. So what is the answer?

 

[617]

Somehow that wasn't the first question that popped into my mind. So what is the answer?

Depends on the amperage. You might be able to anger some mitochondria.

 

[aj625]

Yep.

You mean all dacs having a sinad of around 109db (Bartok measured around 109db sinad ) should sound same ? If that so then why one should buy this $17500 dac ?