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Embracing Simplicity in Audio: Anyone Else Skipping Room Correction, Measurement Microphones, and the Like?

MattHooper

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Buying an AVR and following the on-screen instructions can result in horrible sound.

It's completely true that a lot of audiophiles with their "high end" stuff don't know what they're missing when they don't employ EQ. But to turn the whole thing around, I do think a lot of the people on this forum with their automatic room correction and small Genelecs or Neumanns don't know what they're missing either. Carefully employed manual EQ is a great tool. Automatic, full range room correction are very often problematic, and do not necessarily solve problems with speakers or rooms in a good way.

I did room correction with my Denon AVR. I can select it's own re-calibrated house curve, or flat/neutral, and other variations. I have ended up mostly preferring the sound without the calibration, which sounds more rich, full and natural to my ears.
 

sigbergaudio

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I did room correction with my Denon AVR. I can select it's own re-calibrated house curve, or flat/neutral, and other variations. I have ended up mostly preferring the sound without the calibration, which sounds more rich, full and natural to my ears.

I have the same experience.
 

IPunchCholla

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Not sure exactly what you need data to back up?

Was your understanding prior to my post that activating automatic room correction, regardless of product, brand or situation (room/listening position), the result would always be better than without?

EDIT: I see you already added a disclaimer than one need to both A/B test to check if the correction works, and also measure before and after to consider what has been done. Sounds like you agree with me. (?)
I wasn’t disagreeing, more just curious about the professional users you mentioned. It surprised me that someone knowledgable wouldn’t verify the solution.

Edit to add: my word choice was poor. I would just really like to see what these rooms looked like with room correction and how it went so wrong. I’m a relative newbie at all of this, but the idea of not verifying seems very strange to me.
 
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The emphasis on using room correction, especially for bass, brings up the subject of taste regarding bass properties.

I think a lot of us audiophiles, when we first start discovering audiophile quality sound, find it a revelation. And hearing a system that actually does bass accurately, tight, no bloat, is part of that revelation. It cleans up the sound, and instruments sound more natural, less "speakerly and artificially produced" and it's a big "wow."
And so overwarm or "one note" or bloated bass become a sort of enemy number one on the audiophile list, and we almost snear when we hear "normie" systems with their cheesy, artificial bloated bass.

I've often sought this too, been very cognizant whenever I audition systems or speakers that the bass is well controlled.

On the other hand, there can be what I've come to think of as "Audiophile Bass." That is, bass that is so tightly controlled that it can loose some tactile room-feel and pleasure...too buttoned down. If you are listening to real bass instruments they occupy the room with you and have very tactile feel. On many audiophile systems the recording is so linear and controlled, the bass instrument will appear "over there" occupying it's exact spot in the soundstage, but it will seem to sort of stay "over there" in the space of the recording. It doesn't feel like a bass instrument IN the room exciting the room, where the bass reaches out and rolls over you, exciting you and the room. So one audiophile may hear a perfectly flat system and think "wow, nirvana! Nothing sticking out, no bloat, just the recording!" Another may feel "hmm...interesting...but something missing..." The audiophile message is usually that "We normally have come to expect over-pronounced bass but once you've experienced perfectly flat bass, it's a revelation, you'll never go back." But...I don't think that's always the case necessarily.

I had more linear "audiophile bass" when I had my subs, but I went back to just using my speakers full range because I preferred the extra tactile "reach out flow over me" bass feel. In no way would I characterize the bass in my system bloated or one-note, I'd hate that! I played bass guitar and keyboards, Funk, dance and electronica are among my favourite genres, so I demand good bass quality: I want to hear the character of the instruments. My system's bass sounds tight and punchy. But it's not as perfected as it could be - there occasions where a bass node makes something stick out, but it is rare - most tracks sound very clean and even top to bottom, and what room emphasis is there is, to my ears, cannily integrated to give me more tactile pleasure in the sound.
I used to play bass too. But that chapter belongs to a bygone era. Nowadays, I am drawn to contemporary compositions with organ e.g. As I've shared in related music threads, I enjoy exploring different examples of this genre.

When I listen to organ music on my near-field monitors, I don't want to feel like colossal organ pipes have moved into my room shaking my desk. I prefer a leaner, sharper reproduction, perhaps emphasising only the overtones of the very lowest registers. My brain seems to have this ability to complete the auditory picture.
 

Mean & Green

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The emphasis on using room correction, especially for bass, brings up the subject of taste regarding bass properties.

I think a lot of us audiophiles, when we first start discovering audiophile quality sound, find it a revelation. And hearing a system that actually does bass accurately, tight, no bloat, is part of that revelation. It cleans up the sound, and instruments sound more natural, less "speakerly and artificially produced" and it's a big "wow."
And so overwarm or "one note" or bloated bass become a sort of enemy number one on the audiophile list, and we almost snear when we hear "normie" systems with their cheesy, artificial bloated bass.

I've often sought this too, been very cognizant whenever I audition systems or speakers that the bass is well controlled.

On the other hand, there can be what I've come to think of as "Audiophile Bass." That is, bass that is so tightly controlled that it can loose some tactile room-feel and pleasure...too buttoned down. If you are listening to real bass instruments they occupy the room with you and have very tactile feel. On many audiophile systems the recording is so linear and controlled, the bass instrument will appear "over there" occupying it's exact spot in the soundstage, but it will seem to sort of stay "over there" in the space of the recording. It doesn't feel like a bass instrument IN the room exciting the room, where the bass reaches out and rolls over you, exciting you and the room. So one audiophile may hear a perfectly flat system and think "wow, nirvana! Nothing sticking out, no bloat, just the recording!" Another may feel "hmm...interesting...but something missing..." The audiophile message is usually that "We normally have come to expect over-pronounced bass but once you've experienced perfectly flat bass, it's a revelation, you'll never go back." But...I don't think that's always the case necessarily.

I had more linear "audiophile bass" when I had my subs, but I went back to just using my speakers full range because I preferred the extra tactile "reach out flow over me" bass feel. In no way would I characterize the bass in my system bloated or one-note, I'd hate that! I played bass guitar and keyboards, Funk, dance and electronica are among my favourite genres, so I demand good bass quality: I want to hear the character of the instruments. My system's bass sounds tight and punchy. But it's not as perfected as it could be - there occasions where a bass node makes something stick out, but it is rare - most tracks sound very clean and even top to bottom, and what room emphasis is there is, to my ears, cannily integrated to give me more tactile pleasure in the sound.
I know exactly what you mean and can relate to the ‘audiophile bass’. I find most Hi Fi demos to have that kind of bass you describe.

I once attended a Linn factory tour which included a demo of their ultimate system which is known as ‘Klimax’. They had a dedicated room and the system was set up using their own in house DSP. It was quite possibly one of the subjectively worst audio systems I’ve ever heard especially for the £80k asking price. Kick drums had no ‘kick’ more of a light tap. Bass strings seemed muted and lost in the mix. The treble seemed very exaggerated and peaky in it‘s response. I Know this is just my subjective interpretation in words, so most here can feel free to take it with a huge pinch of salt - but to me it was bad. The other people there also on the same factory tour seemed equally unimpressed. No one was feeling wowed.

Your preference for bass sounds like mine and I’ve always strived to achieve tightness with impact and weight.
 

sigbergaudio

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I wasn’t disagreeing, more just curious about the professional users you mentioned. It surprised me that someone knowledgable wouldn’t verify the solution.

Edit to add: my word choice was poor. I would just really like to see what these rooms looked like with room correction and how it went so wrong. I’m a relative newbie at all of this, but the idea of not verifying seems very strange to me.

I think you misunderstood me (my apologies if my post was unclear), I have not mentioned professional users. I have also not talked about people not verifying the result.
 

DonH56

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At the risk of raising my blood pressure for absolutely no benefit, I am going to touch on the original post, despite and ignoring the meanderings since.

I've always considered myself an early adopter, perhaps even an avant-gardist, when it comes to hi-fi technology. Over the course of the hi-fi journey, there have been paradigm shifts – the transition to CDs, later embracing streaming, and the shift from bulky floor-standing speakers to sleek active monitors, just to name a few.
Yah, many of us have seen a lot of changes over the years, from my first system in the 1970's 'til now (and I am far from the oldest 'phile on ASR).

In my experience, I've found success in keeping my signal paths straightforward. I've been hesitant to transform my regular home listening environment into an acoustic laboratory with heavy computer usage or reliance on proprietary DSP products. Call me old-fashioned, but I value the simplicity of my setup.
I, and I imagine you, were around for the "minimalist" period of "straight wire with gain" that eschewed all tone controls and emphasized a minimalistic system with as few components in the signal path as possible. I had one of those, but honestly after a very short time decided I wanted tone controls at the very least, as too many recordings just did not sound good to me. Maybe me, maybe the room, probably the speakers and room, but certainly some recordings were "better" than others to my ears. Usually too bright, sometimes bass just over-pumped and boomy.

At the opposite end is my current system, with Trinnov (via a JBL Syntheses SDP-75) signal processing (DSP but not a DSP chip, uses a standard PC motherboard), Oppo (HDMI) for discs (CD/SACD/DVD/BD music and movies), and streaming via SONOS (optical).

I have had analog systems with equalizers and all-pass filters to integrate speakers with subs, adjust for flatter in-room (or targeted) response, and so forth.

You do not say if you have any processing of any sort in your system (tone controls or other EQ, crossovers with phase alignment, etc. -- I assume no DSP based on your comment). Given the huge impact the room has on the sound in the low frequencies, and the difficulty in solving low-frequency room modes and SBIR with just acoustic treatments, I prefer to have some ability to modify and hopefully improve the sound. For a minimal approach, I would probably get some sort of PEQ (analog or digital) to reduce peaks, and let the nulls go after adjusting placement (listener and speakers) as best as possible. If the room was such that I could listen out of the peaks, and the nulls were sufficiently narrow and hopefully at low enough frequency to ignore, then sure I could get by with no correction of any sort.

Alas, my current room is far from ideal and has some issues despite fairly heavy room treatment, so I appreciate having the power of DSP to correct things. My sources are digital so adding processing is essentially transparent to signal quality; I do not have a turntable (been in storage for years) and no real interest in messing with it again (to the chagrin of "real" audiophiles everywhere).

Are there others out there who, like me, choose to forgo room correction, measurement microphones, and other sophisticated tools in favor of a more straightforward audio experience? I'd love to hear about your approaches, experiences, and the reasoning behind your decision.
These days, with the vast majority of sources in digital format, the extra digital processing is transparent so I choose to use it. Being an EE, and with past experience in professional sound production (live and studio), I don't consider a measurement mic and REW terribly complicated to use. I usually spend perhaps 10-20 hours over the course of 2-3 weeks (weekends) dialing in a new system then forget about it. That involves measurements, adjusting speaker and listener positions, and tweaking room correction as needed. I do not continually tweak things; my goal is to get the system as optimized as possible then use it for movies and music without constant (over) analyzing. Once initial setup is done I don't usually change things unless a new component enters the system (not usually when changing a source, speakers definitely, amps usually if just to realign the gain).

In the past, I would adjust speaker and listening position, usually with pink noise and a mic plus some sort of spectral display, but sometimes with test tones or narrow-band (e.g. 1/3-octave) noise and ears. Sometimes I had an equalizer, sometimes not. Loudness control was nice as my average listening level was often low'ish (though a lot higher then than now) in deference to parents and neighbors. I had a set of music tracks I knew well and would use to assess the results (on LPs or tape back then). I did use Dolby or dbx noise reduction on "mix" tapes made from the 1/2" masters recorded live or from my records.

Is simplicity still a virtue in the ever-evolving landscape of audio technology?
"Simplicity" can cover a lot of ground. I don't have the right room to use a "simple" system with no controls, but plugging in a mic and pushing a button to run a room correction program is pretty simple IMO. An AVR can be daunting but setup is usually pretty easy for consumers. A two-channel system with minimal controls is actually more work for me to set up, as without the ability to correct the impact of the room or speaker response it takes more time in positioning and perhaps (typically analog) EQ to optimize the sound. Depends on the room and speakers, natch. Among the best sound I had was in a large room with a very basic setup and just enough room treatment to provide even response through most of the frequency range. My current room is rather ugly, acoustically-speaking.

Virtue-signaling is common among audiophiles who espouse minimal controls and basic components, to the point of minimal active devices in the signal chain (e.g. SET amplifiers). And of course they rationalize away all the processing and devices that went into making the recordings they reproduce so minimally... Having components that are very sensitive to speakers or source material, finicky TT setup and fiddling to get the best sound from records, living with undesirable room response characteristics to avoid EQ, and so forth is not a virtue to me.

I lean toward simplicity for the user, hiding the complexity behind a user-friendly interface that simplifies system optimization in a one-shot approach that allows the user (me) to rapidly set up and integrate a new system, and then forget about it. After setup, I just want to listen (watch, both).

FWIWFM - Don
 

IPunchCholla

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I think you misunderstood me (my apologies if my post was unclear), I have not mentioned professional users. I have also not talked about people not verifying the result.
Your post wan’t unclear, I just read something in to it that wan’t there. My apologies.
 
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At the risk of raising my blood pressure for absolutely no benefit, I am going to touch on the original post, despite and ignoring the meanderings since.


Yah, many of us have seen a lot of changes over the years, from my first system in the 1970's 'til now (and I am far from the oldest 'phile on ASR).


I, and I imagine you, were around for the "minimalist" period of "straight wire with gain" that eschewed all tone controls and emphasized a minimalistic system with as few components in the signal path as possible. I had one of those, but honestly after a very short time decided I wanted tone controls at the very least, as too many recordings just did not sound good to me. Maybe me, maybe the room, probably the speakers and room, but certainly some recordings were "better" than others to my ears. Usually too bright, sometimes bass just over-pumped and boomy.

At the opposite end is my current system, with Trinnov (via a JBL Syntheses SDP-75) signal processing (DSP but not a DSP chip, uses a standard PC motherboard), Oppo (HDMI) for discs (CD/SACD/DVD/BD music and movies), and streaming via SONOS (optical).

I have had analog systems with equalizers and all-pass filters to integrate speakers with subs, adjust for flatter in-room (or targeted) response, and so forth.

You do not say if you have any processing of any sort in your system (tone controls or other EQ, crossovers with phase alignment, etc. -- I assume no DSP based on your comment). Given the huge impact the room has on the sound in the low frequencies, and the difficulty in solving low-frequency room modes and SBIR with just acoustic treatments, I prefer to have some ability to modify and hopefully improve the sound. For a minimal approach, I would probably get some sort of PEQ (analog or digital) to reduce peaks, and let the nulls go after adjusting placement (listener and speakers) as best as possible. If the room was such that I could listen out of the peaks, and the nulls were sufficiently narrow and hopefully at low enough frequency to ignore, then sure I could get by with no correction of any sort.

Alas, my current room is far from ideal and has some issues despite fairly heavy room treatment, so I appreciate having the power of DSP to correct things. My sources are digital so adding processing is essentially transparent to signal quality; I do not have a turntable (been in storage for years) and no real interest in messing with it again (to the chagrin of "real" audiophiles everywhere).


These days, with the vast majority of sources in digital format, the extra digital processing is transparent so I choose to use it. Being an EE, and with past experience in professional sound production (live and studio), I don't consider a measurement mic and REW terribly complicated to use. I usually spend perhaps 10-20 hours over the course of 2-3 weeks (weekends) dialing in a new system then forget about it. That involves measurements, adjusting speaker and listener positions, and tweaking room correction as needed. I do not continually tweak things; my goal is to get the system as optimized as possible then use it for movies and music without constant (over) analyzing. Once initial setup is done I don't usually change things unless a new component enters the system (not usually when changing a source, speakers definitely, amps usually if just to realign the gain).

In the past, I would adjust speaker and listening position, usually with pink noise and a mic plus some sort of spectral display, but sometimes with test tones or narrow-band (e.g. 1/3-octave) noise and ears. Sometimes I had an equalizer, sometimes not. Loudness control was nice as my average listening level was often low'ish (though a lot higher then than now) in deference to parents and neighbors. I had a set of music tracks I knew well and would use to assess the results (on LPs or tape back then). I did use Dolby or dbx noise reduction on "mix" tapes made from the 1/2" masters recorded live or from my records.


"Simplicity" can cover a lot of ground. I don't have the right room to use a "simple" system with no controls, but plugging in a mic and pushing a button to run a room correction program is pretty simple IMO. An AVR can be daunting but setup is usually pretty easy for consumers. A two-channel system with minimal controls is actually more work for me to set up, as without the ability to correct the impact of the room or speaker response it takes more time in positioning and perhaps (typically analog) EQ to optimize the sound. Depends on the room and speakers, natch. Among the best sound I had was in a large room with a very basic setup and just enough room treatment to provide even response through most of the frequency range. My current room is rather ugly, acoustically-speaking.

Virtue-signaling is common among audiophiles who espouse minimal controls and basic components, to the point of minimal active devices in the signal chain (e.g. SET amplifiers). And of course they rationalize away all the processing and devices that went into making the recordings they reproduce so minimally... Having components that are very sensitive to speakers or source material, finicky TT setup and fiddling to get the best sound from records, living with undesirable room response characteristics to avoid EQ, and so forth is not a virtue to me.

I lean toward simplicity for the user, hiding the complexity behind a user-friendly interface that simplifies system optimization in a one-shot approach that allows the user (me) to rapidly set up and integrate a new system, and then forget about it. After setup, I just want to listen (watch, both).

FWIWFM - Don
Thank you very much for the detailed response. I now have a relatively good understanding of your well-thought-out approach. Indeed, there may have been some digressions during the thread, for which I am not entirely blameless. For me, writing in such threads sometimes serves the purpose of clarifying certain things for myself.
 

Mart68

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I agree years ago if you purchased a pair of loudspeakers whose bass extension excited the room, your options were to shuffle the speakers away from the wall vainly trying to find the quarter wave cancellation of the ‘boom’ or you sold the loudspeakers and bought a smaller pair whose more limited bass extension didn’t excite the room.
But why on earth would one do that now when it is possible to enjoy a completely full-range loudspeaker with no overhang, no boom that just doesn’t make sense to me unless you really hate bass, or solely listen to girl and guitar.
Keith
The whole 'Loudspeakers exciting the room' is often due to wrong diagnosis. Granted if the room is a small cube then DRC is probably the only way to go if you want any bass.

But the typical UK living room - 16 x 12 or thereabouts will accommodate most large speakers. Bass boom isn't due to speaker going too deep with too much power for the room. I mean seriously how many speakers can do that? Most big passives at any price are ported and doing nothing below 40Hz. and not a lot below 50Hz.

Other possible causes:

1) bouncy floor acting as sounding board - yes this can be fixed with some effort
2) crap speakers - 'But all the reviews! etc etc cont. p94)
3) Amp has low damping factor or valve amp being used which boosts the bass with its lottery FR interaction.
4) speakers jammed into the corners, right against wall, stuffed into the alcoves 'The wife won't have it any other way ' etc
 

IPunchCholla

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I've always considered myself an early adopter, perhaps even an avant-gardist, when it comes to hi-fi technology. Over the course of the hi-fi journey, there have been paradigm shifts – the transition to CDs, later embracing streaming, and the shift from bulky floor-standing speakers to sleek active monitors, just to name a few.

In my experience, I've found success in keeping my signal paths straightforward. I've been hesitant to transform my regular home listening environment into an acoustic laboratory with heavy computer usage or reliance on proprietary DSP products. Call me old-fashioned, but I value the simplicity of my setup.

Are there others out there who, like me, choose to forgo room correction, measurement microphones, and other sophisticated tools in favor of a more straightforward audio experience? I'd love to hear about your approaches, experiences, and the reasoning behind your decision.

Is simplicity still a virtue in the ever-evolving landscape of audio technology?
I've been interested in the discussions that your question has prompted. It has let me clarify my own thinking. I believe I am interested in simplicity, but in regards to ease of use rather than the underlying technology. All my sources go through my computer and since I would have the computer for my work anyway, using it for music isn't much of an addition. I recently moved to active speakers, so the amp is off my desk and out of site (one in each speaker). One item on my to do list is to see if I can use my audio interface (Scarlett 4i4 3rd gen) as a phone pre, removing the need for my separate pre for the TT. So for me, simplicity seems to be getting my equipment compact and/or removing redundant elements.

As for software/DSP It really made no sense for me not to use it, since the chain all goes through the Mac mini anyway. Use Soundforge and ARC3. So all of my sources take advantage of the room correction that provides, which again seems like striving for simplicity. I do recognize that the measurement mic/ measurement process is an added complexity, but I only do that when something in the system changes.

I really appreciate reading your takes on these matters as I don't believe there is one right way to to any of this and love to see how people, like the participants in this thread, engage in the listening process.
 

Timcognito

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My way or the highway. That is the sentiment of many DSP users and posters. Almost religious and the perfect path to audio heaven. There are hundreds of religions and almost all followers in each are born in to them with few not believing theirs somehow has the formula for eternal life and happiness, and few switch to something else. Tolerance is one of the best virtues taught among quite a few. Adherence to science and analytics can be illustrative and beneficial but does not have to be dogma when it comes to a enjoyment of a hobby or pastime.

I use Roon for DSP when I use Roon, but most of my time is spent listening, finding new and curating my music collection, and not fiddling with my gear.
 

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Some people seem incapable of responding to this topic without being passive aggressive and antagonistic!
 

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Surely, this is a humorous post? Yes? No?

If you're serious, then I'm definitely the odd man out here. When I visit enthusiast friends (the few that are still alive) we discuss the age at which Sinatra lost his voice, or we discuss Celidache vs. Abbado, or Bach vs. Albinoni, or even the limitations of fortissimo with small speakers (a favorite of mine).

The equipment is just a conveyance. After all, do you drink beer and obsess over the bottle?

Jim

It was indeed humour (and apologies that Australian sarcasm can be more astringent, less demi-sec).

Primarily sending up the professed/extreme position that we can't simply listen and derive meaningful information about sonics (albeit with less confidence/precision than measured results).

That said, I'm not pretending I don't enjoy measuring and discussing results. That is actually fun.
 

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Since my speakers couldn't do without DSP, as it's part of their design and tuning (measurements-based active XO & EQing), it would not make much sense not to have in-room fine tuning and DRC made on top.
Otherwise, with a simple system made of a source, a 2-ch amp and a pair of passive (not too aggressive :p) speakers for relaxed and hedonistic listening, inasmuch as the adjustment and fine-tuning process can be a PITA, I see no major disadvantage in adopting the OP's attitude - as long as the ratio of pleasure obtained/pain taken is perceived favorably.
 

Scytales

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I've always considered myself an early adopter, perhaps even an avant-gardist, when it comes to hi-fi technology. Over the course of the hi-fi journey, there have been paradigm shifts – the transition to CDs, later embracing streaming, and the shift from bulky floor-standing speakers to sleek active monitors, just to name a few.

In my experience, I've found success in keeping my signal paths straightforward. I've been hesitant to transform my regular home listening environment into an acoustic laboratory with heavy computer usage or reliance on proprietary DSP products. Call me old-fashioned, but I value the simplicity of my setup.

Are there others out there who, like me, choose to forgo room correction, measurement microphones, and other sophisticated tools in favor of a more straightforward audio experience? I'd love to hear about your approaches, experiences, and the reasoning behind your decision.

Is simplicity still a virtue in the ever-evolving landscape of audio technology?

I am a firm believer that the worst enemy of great sound is human errors. The more we can tweak with available settings, the more we can introduced errors in a sound reproduction system. In that sense, I tend to prefer simplicity and straightforwardness to over-complication.

I have tried to set up my Hi-fi by measurements thanks to a measuring microphone and a Behringer DSP8024 (1/3 spectrum analyzer) then the famous software Room Eq Wizard.

I gave up because the measurement results were unreliable, either because my methodology was incorrect or because measuring in an ordinary room not designed for measurement is irrelevant.

I think I have learned the hard way that acoustic measurements is not a trivial discipline, better left to seasoned specialists.

I do not disdain making corrections: I have very simple parametric equalizers, which I adjust by ear and brain using trustworthy sound signals designed for that usage or perfectly well documented recordings of natural sound.
 

MattHooper

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"Simplicity" can cover a lot of ground. ....

I lean toward simplicity for the user, hiding the complexity behind a user-friendly interface that simplifies system optimization in a one-shot approach that allows the user (me) to rapidly set up and integrate a new system, and then forget about it. After setup, I just want to listen (watch, both).

It has let me clarify my own thinking. I believe I am interested in simplicity, but in regards to ease of use rather than the underlying technology.

Yes!

That's why the "simplicity" thing can be a bit misleading. (Though I felt the OP has been clear enough in what he meant with the term).

Personally I'm no stranger to engaging in complexity in setting up systems. My home theater build, back in 2009, was insanely complex and involved. I was taking a main room of the house, and trying to make it multi-use: regular room for hanging out in during the day so can't be some dark pit. Must accommodate a completely separate 2 channel system. And then it must accommodate a full projection-based home theater set up, with (at the time) 7.1 surround, and must be as high performance as possible, no compromises to image quality. It was insane juggling all the parameters...projector had to be hidden, all the things I wanted visually. I hired an acoustician for the design, so there's all sorts of work done that way. I ended up with what is, behind the scenes, an extremely complex system because of the desire performance level and flexibility. The projector is hidden behind the sofa on a special telescoping lift, custom built in Germany for me.
The screen is a massive stewart screen with a 4 way automated masking system that I put together with various technologies, so the screen could be any size or shape I desire, etc. And then the RTI remote system involved very complex programming.

But the END result of all that complexity is that it's sort of in the background, and it's easy to use. On my remote I choose "turn system on" and the projector turns on and lifts up to over 6 feet above and behind the viewing sofa, at the same time the automated blinds close off the windows, the lights go down to a preset for getting ready to watch a movie, and off we go. Similarly, I have a ton of presets for image aspect ratios and image sizes, so if something is in IMAX or in 2:35:1 I hit that button, the projector re-zooms the image to a specified size, and the two different masking systems operate on macros to frame the image perfectly. (I was also hired to do some other systems for some folks as well).

So tons of complexity and work involved, for a simple to use and very clean result.

Though, frankly, I think that the project was so much work it sort of left me never wanting to do that again. I just wanted to finally kick back and just watch movies and not have to think about it. I think that carries over to some point in my reluctance to go down certain rabbit holes with my 2 channel system.
 
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Mean & Green

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It was indeed humour (and apologies that Australian sarcasm can be more astringent, less demi-sec).

Primarily sending up the professed/extreme position that we can't simply listen and derive meaningful information about sonics (albeit with less confidence/precision than measured results).

That said, I'm not pretending I don't enjoy measuring and discussing results. That is actually fun.
Your humorous post made me chuckle, which was welcome in this discussion :)
 

Geert

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But the typical UK living room - 16 x 12 or thereabouts will accommodate most large speakers. Bass boom isn't due to speaker going too deep with too much power for the room. I mean seriously how many speakers can do that? Most big passives at any price are ported and doing nothing below 40Hz. and not a lot below 50Hz. Other possible causes:
1) bouncy floor acting as sounding board - yes this can be fixed with some effort
2) crap speakers - 'But all the reviews! etc etc cont. p94)
3) Amp has low damping factor or valve amp being used which boosts the bass with its lottery FR interaction.
4) speakers jammed into the corners, right against wall, stuffed into the alcoves 'The wife won't have it any other way ' etc

With the room size you mentioned there's a big chance the speakers as well as the listening position will end up close to the wall (especially if it's not a dedicated listening room), so possible cause 4 is the reality for a lot of people. This is the worst case scenario when it comes to room modes.

This is the 'bass boom' my bookshelf speakers with a 6" woofer and an f3 of 50Hz manage to produce in a comparable room:

1701289284472.png


That 42Hz peak is the first axial room mode in the length of the room (344/4,13m/2=42). The second mode causing the peak on 84Hz. Non of the 3 other possible causes you mentioned are relevant here.

Long ago I also had a sub which managed to trigger the first 25Hz axial mode in the width of the room. Ooh boy. No measurements as I was afraid it would cause structural damage to the building ...
 
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