Elac Debut Reference DBR-62 Speaker Review

[jmiades]

After reading all of the positive reviews, I just got a pair of ELAC DBR62's and was a little surprised that out of the box, they sound muddy on the top end. I've been A/B'ing them with an older pair of Polk M5jr speakers and the ELAC's are notably lacking clarity on highs and upper mids compared to the Polks. The bass on the ELAC's is punchier than the Polks, though. I do have them installed on an actual bookshelf, so they're close to the back wall, but I was hoping this wouldn't be an issue since they don't have a rear port. Any thoughts from the group? Could this just be that I need to give the speakers time to break in? I'm driving them with a Cambridge Audio CXA81 integrated amp and the source is a Dual CS 5000 turntable through a Cambridge Audio Duo phono preamp. Thanks!

 

[Beershaun]

After reading all of the positive reviews, I just got a pair of ELAC DBR62's and was a little surprised that out of the box, they sound muddy on the top end. I've been A/B'ing them with an older pair of Polk M5jr speakers and the ELAC's are notably lacking clarity on highs and upper mids compared to the Polks. The bass on the ELAC's is punchier than the Polks, though. I do have them installed on an actual bookshelf, so they're close to the back wall, but I was hoping this wouldn't be an issue since they don't have a rear port. Any thoughts from the group? Could this just be that I need to give the speakers time to break in? I'm driving them with a Cambridge Audio CXA81 integrated amp and the source is a Dual CS 5000 turntable through a Cambridge Audio Duo phono preamp. Thanks!

make sure the tweeters are at the same height as your ears. I've experienced that effect before when I had my speakers mounted too high. Voices sounded muffled and I was constantly fiddling with the volume. Once I lowered them to where the tweeters were in-line with my ears the problem went away. If you look at the vertical dispersion graph you can see there is a big dropoff in frequency response between 1Khz and 4khz if you are more than 20 degrees above or below the tweeter axis. It's just the nature of non-coaxial speakers where the tweeter is stacked vertically above the woofer.

 

[kolestonin]

Any thoughts from the group?

Just 4 posts above you can find my post where I think I describe, maybe with different words, a similar experience.
Break in changed nothing in my case.
What did make a change was giving the speakers more clearance from the back wall.
I also noticed that in my room things were worse regarding the highs with the speakers fully toed in. Try to compare how they sound when fully toed in vs fully straight. In my case the difference was night and day in favour of direct placement. And then you will have a starting point(angled or direct) so to experiment with different angles. I ended up with a 5-10 degrees toe in placement(probably for OCD reasons). But every room is different.
So resuming, what made things get better for me regarding the muddy(I called them recessed) highs was:
-give some more clearance from back wall
-find the correct low pass filter for my sub
-place them in a direct position

 

[aleonids]

Hi.
I would like to install DBR-62 on the stands to the left and right of the desk to listen to music while working at the PC.
Please tell me what height of stands will be needed?

 

[kolestonin]

You need to make sure twitters are same height as your ears.
So it all depends on your listening position.
My stands are 62cm tall and that works perfectly for my couch listening position.
For nearfield desk setup you may need to look for something slightly taller.

 

[jmiades]

make sure the tweeters are at the same height as your ears. I've experienced that effect before when I had my speakers mounted too high. Voices sounded muffled and I was constantly fiddling with the volume. Once I lowered them to where the tweeters were in-line with my ears the problem went away. If you look at the vertical dispersion graph you can see there is a big dropoff in frequency response between 1Khz and 4khz if you are more than 20 degrees above or below the tweeter axis. It's just the nature of non-coaxial speakers where the tweeter is stacked vertically above the woofer.

Thanks Beershaun, the tweeters on the ELAC's were actually closer to my ear height than the Polks during my A/B comparison, so unfortunately I don't think that's the cause.

 

[jmiades]

Just 4 posts above you can find my post where I think I describe, maybe with different words, a similar experience.
Break in changed nothing in my case.
What did make a change was giving the speakers more clearance from the back wall.
I also noticed that in my room things were worse regarding the highs with the speakers fully toed in. Try to compare how they sound when fully toed in vs fully straight. In my case the difference was night and day in favour of direct placement. And then you will have a starting point(angled or direct) so to experiment with different angles. I ended up with a 5-10 degrees toe in placement(probably for OCD reasons). But every room is different.
So resuming, what made things get better for me regarding the muddy(I called them recessed) highs was:
-give some more clearance from back wall
-find the correct low pass filter for my sub
-place them in a direct position

Thanks, Kolestonin. I'll try to adjust the angle of the speakers to see if that makes a difference. Unfortunately, I don't have a practical option to pull them away from the back wall, so I may have to go with a different speaker if nothing else works. Sorry to hear the break in didn't make a difference for you, I was hoping that might be the issue here. The difference between the ELAC's and the Polk's on the top end is not subtle, it's clearly noticeable.

 

[Beershaun]

Thanks Beershaun, the tweeters on the ELAC's were actually closer to my ear height than the Polks during my A/B comparison, so unfortunately I don't think that's the cause.

Ah. Then as others have said taking them out of the bookshelf may help. Even though it's front ported it still radiates a lot of energy from the rear and cabinet itself.

 

[cavedriver]

I also felt the highs were recessed, but I admit I don't see where turning them off-axis to your ears will bring them up any. Even though the speakers generally have great bass, the recessed sound could be coming from the top of the woofer breaking up and maybe using the bass shelf is taking some load off the woofer and allowing it to play the high end of it's range with more fidelity, bringing the vocals forward a bit. Just conjecture though. I sent the speaker back before trying any DSP and it was something that if I was willing to include DSP in my signal chain I probably should have played with. In room interference could maybe be contributing as well - try moving them to another room/area.

 

[Bernard23]

Just set mine up, thanks QED for not marking the cable polarity, what a pita. Initial impressions after the diamond 9.1s are more extended bass, smoother upper mids and treble generally, so just as I expected thankfully. Thank goodness there is no obvious shimmer or sizzle. I can understand why some folk find them underwhelming or muted treble. Works fine in my 9dd shaped acoustically messed up room; a good budget / mid priced speaker. They have more than a touch of ATC neutrality about them, at sensible SPLs anyway.

 

[Bernard23]

Topping E30
Topping Pre-90
boxem audio Arthur 3409/N2
SVS SB1000pro

Almost 3 months I use the speakers and I can say I am satisfied with their sound.

I realized their value from the first time I listened to them but wasn't so happy from the beginning.

I was finding the highs recessed to an extend that the indisputable no-fatigue experience was many times becoming a non-engaging(or even boring) experience.

First thing that changed things in a positive way was setting low pass filter at 60Hz(as suggested by SVS when you use the speakers with a pre-amp) with a 24db slope. LPF was initially set at 80Hz(that's the suggestion when not using a pre-amp) as my Pre-amp was not making part of the chain. And for a reason I insisted setting it AT 80Hz during the first period(even after pre-90 arrival), and that was making the bass richer but also a bit boomy. Highs were also more recessed. But setting LPF at 60Hz seems to put everything in place in a magic way. Bass is more crisp, detailed, and highs came some steps forward.

The second and most positive impact came by moving the speakers 10cm further from the back wall. The difference these 10cm made is something incredible. Speakers found a lot of their missing energy. Bass became more articulate, complicated, powerful and there is also a, almost inexistent before, tactile feeling. Highs and mids were also benefited. It was like the speakers were not ‘breathing’ in a way before. It seems I underestimated their need from back wall distance given they are front ported. I experimented a lot with toe in, distance between the speakers, distance with the listening position, but I wrongly assumed there is no need to move them a bit forward, given my previous rear-ported speakers were perfectly fine with this wall distance. So I thought this could not be a problem with the front ported Elac's. But this is not true. And imagine they are not placed way far from the back wall. Initially they were placed at 20cm and now they have a 30cm distance. I am pretty sure that most of you give more space on the back of your Elac's. But in my case everything more than 30cm starts to give me serious space and usage of my living room troubles. It is interesting I also try to give them another 5cm(the most I can do) and the result was worse. So it seems(or I hope) I found the sweet spot.

Now everything is better and I already said I am satisfied with the speakers. Not completely though, as while I definitely enjoy them, I still have a feeling there is a lack of energy and excitement factor. A feeling that they leave something to be desired. But this feeling can be due to the infinite chase for a better sound which is part of our hobby after all. One hobby to which I am new so I have lack of knowledge and experience with many speakers(so to be able to compare) and an excess of enthusiasm for better gear. But I tend to believe that what my untrained ears perceive as ‘lack of energy’ is due to my living room size. Yes 30 sq meters is not a large room. But it is not a small one too. And I think my dbr62 are struggling to fill that room. It would be interesting to have some feedback from owners using the speakers in a similar sized room and willing to share their experience. Or eventually some placement or other techniques which helped their speakers sine as they should.

I try to read and gain knowledge on sound matters and equipment, also thinking to eventually drop myself in the rabbit hole of room calibration software, try some room treatment and off course considering what will be my next upgrade with no time pressure given I like the Elac’s. If I keep them, a 2nd subwoofer will be my best bet I guess. If I decide to change them, I will go with some bigger maybe 3 way speakers like the Whaferdale 85 Linton’s for example or a pair of floor standers.

ps1: I know that terms like rich, recessed, excitement factor etc, do not say a lot to you but unfortunately I have no measurements as a scientific proof of what I hear.

Only observations / suggestions I can make are that you're firing down the long length, not across the width. Your going to suffer from the speakers being too close to the sidewalls with the attendant reflections. I had a similar problem years ago, cured by turning my room through 90 degrees and firing across the width. You may not have enough space though to do that, assuming it's even something you'd want to consider.

 

[jmiades]

I also felt the highs were recessed, but I admit I don't see where turning them off-axis to your ears will bring them up any. Even though the speakers generally have great bass, the recessed sound could be coming from the top of the woofer breaking up and maybe using the bass shelf is taking some load off the woofer and allowing it to play the high end of it's range with more fidelity, bringing the vocals forward a bit. Just conjecture though. I sent the speaker back before trying any DSP and it was something that if I was willing to include DSP in my signal chain I probably should have played with. In room interference could maybe be contributing as well - try moving them to another room/area.

Thanks, I don't think my amp offers much in the way of EQ, and I'm pretty limited with positioning in the room, so I'll keep breaking them in and hope that opens them up a bit on the top end. I'm going to A/B them with some headphones and different musical sources today, so I'll be interested to see what that reveals.

 

[cavedriver]

Thanks, I don't think my amp offers much in the way of EQ, and I'm pretty limited with positioning in the room, so I'll keep breaking them in and hope that opens them up a bit on the top end. I'm going to A/B them with some headphones and different musical sources today, so I'll be interested to see what that reveals.

Note that the frequency response of most headphones is far from flat and is not an ideal way of A/B'ing speakers. Unfortunately the best thing to A/B speakers with is better speakers. Consider that returns are free on a lot of speakers from Amazon in the sub-1k price range...

 

[jmiades]

Note that the frequency response of most headphones is far from flat and is not an ideal way of A/B'ing speakers. Unfortunately the best thing to A/B speakers with is better speakers. Consider that returns are free on a lot of speakers from Amazon in the sub-1k price range...

Thanks! I really just want to A/B against the headphones because I'm wondering if the Polk speakers I was using for comparison are over-emphasizing the top end. Maybe the ELAC's are more accurately reproducing the source material. I ordered from Crutchfield and they have a 60-day return policy, so I should have no issues returning them if that's where things wind up.

 

[Bernard23]

If you A/B with headphones it would be sensible to EQ them to harman otherwise the comparison will be meaningless.

 

[Bernard23]

I've got mine set up 36cm from the rear wall firing across the room width, and in an approx 3.5m equilateral triangle Room is around 12m or so long so they're about 1/3 in from the sidewalls. Average listening level is 70-80dB range, occasional 85+ when no one else is at home. I have them on atm as background at 60-65dB and they sound just fine. I've got an annoying bass spike somewhere around 70-80Hz that's noticeable as a drone on some tracks, but that's not the speakers fault. I don't find them muted or lacking in presence. Dynamically good, good bands just sound good. The level of detail is good too, I have a couple of Floyd tracks from the Wall and Final Cut that I use to see how much background info is retrieved. I said earlier, these are reminiscent of a pair of ATC SCM40s that I used to own, at least in the mids and above.

 

[jmiades]

If you A/B with headphones it would be sensible to EQ them to harman otherwise the comparison will be meaningless.

Thanks, Bernard. For clarification, my intention isn't to A/B the ELAC speakers against headphones. The intent is to refer to the headphones as a tool to help arbitrate the differences between the Polk and ELAC speakers in reproducing the source material. These are headphones I've had for years, so I'm very familiar with their characteristics.

 

[SiR]

Friends,

Thinking to pair Elac DBR 62 with Marantz PM 8006 and it will be my first hi-fi

As far as the reviews read about Marantz is that they are warmer

Is DBR 62 warm or neutral speaker ?

How good will be this combination ?

Practically can't have audition of these in my place

Please give your input

 

[Willem]

The Elac speakers are on the warm side which is generally felt to be a good thing. Decent amplifiers such as this Marantz do not have a sonic personality - amplifier "sound" is one of these crackpot myths unless we are talking audiophool gear which this amplifier is not.
However, power can make a difference, and these speakers seem to like a bit of power (my son uses them to good effect with a 2x250 watt Yamaha p2500s). You could consider a 2x100 watt Yamaha AS701. It sells for less and has digital as well as analogue inputs.

 

[cavedriver]

what is "warm"? I've seen it referred to as a bump in the bass response from ~100 to ~200 Hz. I don't think the Elac's are all that bad in that range so I assume by warm you mean a mid-high suck-out