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Eartips - have a significant impact on an IEM's sound - Would like to fully understand the WHY - please what are the factors involved?

I have a pair of 7Hz x Crinacle Zero:2. They're fantastic but I'm using the red tips (the largest) and I need to constantly push them in to get a good seal otherwise the base starts to fade away. Is there a recommended replacement I can use? How will I know any given pair will fit this IEM? I have the feeling these ones would be fine if they were more rubbery/sticky!
TRN T tips are somewhat sticky, they helped a lot with a similar issue with my old Revonext QT5.

PS
Don't know about Zero 2, I have original Zero and the largest stock tips are the yellow ones, not the red ones.
 
I have a pair of 7Hz x Crinacle Zero:2. They're fantastic but I'm using the red tips (the largest) and I need to constantly push them in to get a good seal otherwise the base starts to fade away. Is there a recommended replacement I can use? How will I know any given pair will fit this IEM? I have the feeling these ones would be fine if they were more rubbery/sticky!
Foam type? Making sure you roll them with your fingers, prior to inserting (so that they expand back inside your ear canals).

The largest (XL…) silicon tips you can find? It is somewhat counter-intuitive, but when I constantly need to “push” an IEM to get a good seal, a large silicon tip that I barely push in—just enough to seal—has given me very good results.

Beyond that, it’s really trials & errors to find what works for you. :)
 
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Thanks everyone. Highly appreciated, all contributions to this topic.

A bit off topic.

Having made an effort to improve all my IEMs via tip rolling, I come to a life changing conclusion. I am abandoning the budget category of IEMs, the more revealing I hear them, the more I face the truth, they cannot compete. I have at this time the following budget IEMs. CCA Polaris, CCA CRA, KZ EDC Pro, 7Hz Zero 2, but as soon as I hear the ARTTI T10, no contest, a totally much better result. Far more accurate. I've been listening for months, and I do not know if driver break in(burn in), is true or not, or if it's my own ears that needed to be broken in(burnt in). The conclusion, is final. No more budget IEMs. It's like a budget car, they simply do not have the kind of acceleration, you get in a more powerful engine.

We live only once, why subject ourselves to mediocre sound.

I've been hearing the difference for months, but yesterday it came to a head. I was listening to some gospel music - More than Anything, Lamar Campbell and others. We are familiar with how voices should sound, and for this kind of music, they are careful, NOT to distort the vocals, through tons of "compression" or other dynamics processing. Furthermore there is a complexity, hearing lots of voices at the same time.

I am reminded of the ethos behind the Harbeth (BBC inspired) Hi-Fi/Studio speakers, which was natural reproduction of the human voice. It was so apparent like chalk and cheese, huge difference - the budget IEMs, mangled the vocals, making them sound like aliens, the ARRTI T10 - just lifelike, the most natural. That was my conclusion. like mirror mirror on the wall, only one of these IEMs was telling me the truth, and that was the ARRTI T10.

Why the hesitation, why did it take me so long to - fully accept this, self doubt. Also I've listened to dynamics headphones or earbuds and now IEMs, all my life, that is what I know, so hearing something else seemed strange, and "wrong". But it's now conclusive, no more budget single DD IEMs. I will still keep them for nostalgia purposes, or as backups. Or as a way to reference what listeners with budget devices, will hear, of the music/audio, which I work on in my studio. But for my critical or pleasurable personal listening, no more budget IEMs. Not worth the economy or savings. You just keep buying more and more of the cheapies, but the solution is to stop and spend the money on something that is truly excellent like the T10.

The biggest challenge is, there are no clearly articulated measurements that I know of, that will tell anyone that the T10 sounds better than these cheapies. None. So as much as this web site AudioScienceReview, makes some effort - apologies, it is a bit of a waste of time. Those measurements reveal nothing about exactly how a headphone or IEM will sound. I say this with all due respect, not out of disregard, but we are not yet there. My hunch is maybe there is information available in the group delay and impulse response measurements, but these are not consistently published here in IEM reviews. Also maybe there is information in the Waterfalls. So the only real way we can anticipate how a headphone device will sound, is to take the word of reviewers. Especially where there is consensus.

But herein lies the dilemma - there is also consensus, that the 7Hz Zero is a good sounding device, and I agree, but only in context of similar budget devices, not a giant killer, but it's hard in the plethora of favourable opinions, to appreciate the context, of the positive views - good - for the price. I think price should no longer be a consideration, simply compare products based only on quality, and let the buyer determine how much they are willing to spend, not the other way round where we pigeon hole products into price segments. If the audio quality is the priority, forget about price, rank devices based on perceived quality, and the only way we have today of doing this really is subjective. The Zero 2 and the ARTTI T10 have somewhat similar Frequency Responses, but nothing I know at this point in time, explains the huge difference in sonic accuracy. At least nothing in the Frequency Responses.
I’m sorry to say but I think most of the sound attributes you’re experiencing are in your head.
This is the danger of sighted listening..and it’s very hard to overcome with headphones or iems. Blind listening with electronics are far easier achievable, although not exactly easy to do properly.
Don’t get me wrong, I too have been in your shoes. It’s hard not to imagine wondrous things, when you know that you’re listening to something with X price tag on it or similarly contain what supposedly is deemed higher quality drivers over most of the audiophile internet. This all has a tendency to marry together in one’s brain and effectively conjures up sound quality that only really exists in our minds.
This is however what most of the hobby relies on. They want you to believe in magic rather than the actual science…and magic is very expensive.

We’ve been making audio gear and researching human hearing for a century - which has lead to a multitude of new discoveries and so much better gear. Audio and our hearing capabilities are both things that are well understood by now. It is futile to think that we somehow have missed a large part of the equation somewhere along the line.
The wild card is our imagination - as wonderful and deceptive as it can be.
 
It's rare that an aftermarket set of tips don't go on an IEM at all. Worst that can happen with a bad fit is that you'd either have to apply some force when attaching the tip to the IEM or that the tip can get prone to getting stuck in your ear when you take the IEM off. I haven't had any issues with any aftermarket tips on the Zero:2.

As for fit, as others have said - it's personal what works for you. The Tri Clarion mentioned earlier in the thread works for me with this IEM, YMMV.


These tips are also available in a wide bore version, and they're quite different from other tips I've tried. The tip is very short and so the IEM sits quite deep. I find that this works very well but the deep pressure can be fatiguing during longer listening sessions.
I'm not worried that a pair of zero2-compatible tips will not fit the zero2; I'm surprised if you're saying all tips should all be compatible! Surely some IEMs have a narrower stem? I'm after specific models which definitely fit, so I'll look into the Tri Clarion. Occasionally the tip supplied with the zero2 comes off in my ear so I'm used to that.
 
TRN T tips are somewhat sticky, they helped a lot with a similar issue with my old Revonext QT5.

PS
Don't know about Zero 2, I have original Zero and the largest stock tips are the yellow ones, not the red ones.
I tried the yellow ones previously (when I bought the IEMs) and again after you posted this. I can't decide which are larger; the red ones look a little wider to me - and have a slightly different shape - but I have much less bass with the yellow ones. So maybe I'm after a different shape rather than size.
 
I’m sorry to say but I think most of the sound attributes you’re experiencing are in your head.
This is the danger of sighted listening..and it’s very hard to overcome with headphones or iems. Blind listening with electronics are far easier achievable, although not exactly easy to do properly.
Don’t get me wrong, I too have been in your shoes. It’s hard not to imagine wondrous things, when you know that you’re listening to something with X price tag on it or similarly contain what supposedly is deemed higher quality drivers over most of the audiophile internet. This all has a tendency to marry together in one’s brain and effectively conjures up sound quality that only really exists in our minds.
This is however what most of the hobby relies on. They want you to believe in magic rather than the actual science…and magic is very expensive.

We’ve been making audio gear and researching human hearing for a century - which has lead to a multitude of new discoveries and so much better gear. Audio and our hearing capabilities are both things that are well understood by now. It is futile to think that we somehow have missed a large part of the equation somewhere along the line.
The wild card is our imagination - as wonderful and deceptive as it can be.
The point I was trying to make is - there is no conclusive measurement at this time, that can reliably predict which IEM would sound better, even when they have similar Frequency Response. Which is the whole point of this website. Measurements. For DAC's and speakers - yes measurements provide a more direct correlation with how we expect a device to sound, but for IEM's and headphones, not as much. Why? Headphones and IEM's bypass some of the physical structure of our ear, which is unique to each of us.

No measurement, will predict how each of us hears a headphone or IEM., cos it may not align with our own hearing.

I fully acknowledge this is the MEASUREMENT website, and pretty much anything I say is subjective, cos I have nothing to measure with, I do not own a measurement rig.

And even if I did, that would not explain what I hear, cos my own HRTF is NOT the same as that of the measurement rig.

Hopefully my subjective observations, which are not what some here consider worth reading, will help someone else who reads them, and understands the value in them. Which is why I bother to share them. Of course there will be those who think it's all in my head, and that is a fair opinion. In another few years, as the science evolves, they may eventually accept, I was not out of my mind, and the things I heard and reported here are valid. I can't prove that I am right, and others cannot prove that I am wrong.!

Here's a video that sheds more light on the subject. It may need watching a few times, to fully appreciate it. Please keep an open mind.

 
I tried the yellow ones previously (when I bought the IEMs) and again after you posted this. I can't decide which are larger; the red ones look a little wider to me - and have a slightly different shape - but I have much less bass with the yellow ones. So maybe I'm after a different shape rather than size.
Red ones are the widest with larger bore in the set while yellow ones being the widest with narrow bore, didn't measured them with my caliper, but yes, narrow bore are much dome-like while wide bore ones are more conical, a shape, more typical of foam tips:

7Hz_x_Crinacle_Zero_2_08_r.jpg


So it can surely be a matter of shape.
 
I'm not worried that a pair of zero2-compatible tips will not fit the zero2; I'm surprised if you're saying all tips should all be compatible! Surely some IEMs have a narrower stem? I'm after specific models which definitely fit, so I'll look into the Tri Clarion. Occasionally the tip supplied with the zero2 comes off in my ear so I'm used to that.
No, not all tips on the market will fit, but it is very few that wont. If I recall correctly the Zero:2 nozzle is ~6mm in diameter which is a fairly common width, and the narrow ring at the end of the nozzle is also something that works well with most tips (especially compared to just a flared nozzle).

If the manufacturer does not specify the nozzle size, it most likely would fit 5-6mm nozzles just fine. Some manufacturers, like Spinfit, will make many models to fit various stem widths as well as special versions for IEMs with unusual nozzles (like the Air Pods Pro). Naturally, if you have a 6mm nozzle and you are eyeing a set of tips that come in various sizes, opting for the matching one would work the best.

Or in other words, it's likelier that a random tip would fit the nozzle of your IEM than the combo fitting your ear.
 
The point I was trying to make is - there is no conclusive measurement at this time, that can reliably predict which IEM would sound better, even when they have similar Frequency Response.
No agenda / not trying to be too dogmatic... :)

You are absolutely correct here...... simply because you're conflating two different topics:
  1. Sound science and the associated measurements.
  2. Human perception and its associated science disciplines.
No sound measurement will ever predict what sounds better to you: measurements belongs to sound science, what sounds better to you belongs to perception.
 
... The tip is very short and so the IEM sits quite deep. I find that this works very well but the deep pressure can be fatiguing during longer listening sessions.
I only have the Tangzu Tang Sanchai "wide" ear tips myself (on the original planar Artti T10). One feature is the tip end itself is formed more tapered than others and made of extremely soft silicone. I find that tip end conforms better inside my ear canals without exerting side pressure in the ear canal. As such I wear them without discomfort on 2 - 3 mile walks and arriving back home have no urge to get them off. I guess this is another example of trying and deciding for oneself what's best.

Here they are on my iem flanked on both sides by some iems' stock ear tips and a grey after market brand ear tip.

IMG_1974.jpeg
 
I only have the Tangzu Tang Sanchai "wide" ear tips myself (on the original planar Artti T10). One feature is the tip end itself is formed more tapered than others and made of extremely soft silicone. I find that tip end conforms better inside my ear canals without exerting side pressure in the ear canal. As such I wear them without discomfort on 2 - 3 mile walks and arriving back home have no urge to get them off. I guess this is another example of trying and deciding for oneself what's best.

Here they are on my iem flanked on both sides by some iems' stock ear tips and a grey after market brand ear tip.

View attachment 419233
Sadly the L is not L enough for me with these tips on most iem. Shame as a mm or so more might have made them great . Think mine are the regular bore width . Came free with some cheapo tangzu buds .
 
I'm having a bit of an issue with tips at the moment, I don't get a seal with stock tips mostly. Spinfit XL has given me a better fit, but then only in a very specific place; just in the outer canal enough so they don't fall off, and not too far in so the bass response drops off a cliff. It's getting a bit frustrating as I'm forever battling to get the IEMs in the exact right place so I get the best sound.

Any other recommendations for tips that might work for me? Or am I doing it wrong, and I should be aiming to get a good seal in the inner, rather than the outer, canal?
 
I'm having a bit of an issue with tips at the moment, I don't get a seal with stock tips mostly. Spinfit XL has given me a better fit, but then only in a very specific place; just in the outer canal enough so they don't fall off, and not too far in so the bass response drops off a cliff. It's getting a bit frustrating as I'm forever battling to get the IEMs in the exact right place so I get the best sound.

Any other recommendations for tips that might work for me? Or am I doing it wrong, and I should be aiming to get a good seal in the inner, rather than the outer, canal?
Depends on the size of the shell and length of the nozzle . What iem you got ?
 
For those interested, I put together a little post with a "hack" I did with some triple flange eartips to keep the stem stable and deliver (at least for me) a decent seal even when the "angle" of the IEM causes the eartips to normally pop out after a while - this hack kept them stable with a good seal even out walking:

 
Depends on the size of the shell and length of the nozzle . What iem you got ?

7hz Zero, 7hz Zero 2, Artti T10, Chu II DSP with Spinfit XL.

I also have tbe Truthear Red Zero, and I try probably the best fit with that with the stock sticky foam ear tips. I wonder if I’m best suited to iems with a wider bore
 
7hz Zero, 7hz Zero 2, Artti T10, Chu II DSP with Spinfit XL.

I also have tbe Truthear Red Zero, and I try probably the best fit with that with the stock sticky foam ear tips. I wonder if I’m best suited to iems with a wider bore
I have the spinfit XL but have ended up using them on nothing .

The 7hz zero are definitely shallower fit so will need a wide fit tip (wide cap , bore doesn't matter much ). I use alza xelastec large.

For most of my iem , especially those with a bigger shell that fills and sits snug in the concha (like the Dusk , thieaudio etc ) I use moondrop spring tip XL and you really can't vary depth as the shell sits where it sits .

I have the t10 and would use either the spring tips or the xelastec . The latter really can only block the outer canal due to width .

Both I mentioned fill my canal better than the spinfits XL
 
I have the spinfit XL but have ended up using them on nothing .

The 7hz zero are definitely shallower fit so will need a wide fit tip (wide cap , bore doesn't matter much ). I use alza xelastec large.

For most of my iem , especially those with a bigger shell that fills and sits snug in the concha (like the Dusk , thieaudio etc ) I use moondrop spring tip XL and you really can't vary depth as the shell sits where it sits .

I have the t10 and would use either the spring tips or the xelastec . The latter really can only block the outer canal due to width .

Both I mentioned fill my canal better than the spinfits XL

It looks as thought the XL Springtips are sold out/ discontinued, at least on Aliexpress and Linsoul.
 
It looks as thought the XL Springtips are sold out/ discontinued, at least on Aliexpress and Linsoul.
Can be had on hifigo (at least a week ago, I ordered more ). Something of a minority item sadly .
 
From my email trail it would be this:

MOONDROP SPRING TIPS Silicone Eartips × 1
XL
Thank you - for your recommendation. I received my Moondrop Spring XL Silicone Tips a few minutes ago.

Ordered from HifiGo.com. These are not cheap. But their service was excellent. Delivered in about 10 days, which is pretty OK, for an item coming all the way from China to the UK. Pretty much the same kind of service one gets ordering from AliExpress, with good notification, at keys steps of its journey to me.

What do I think of them - 1st impressions. using them on the ARTTI T10.

Fit. Outstanding fit. As good or better than the largest of the stock white tips, with black inner bore, which were bundled with the T10. Rock solid fit. Very comfortable, in spite of the good fit, cos teh material from which they are made is kind of soft and thin, rather than thick.

Took some effort to fit on the T10. While swapping back and forth with the stock tips, to hear the difference in how they sound, at the 2nd attempt, it was easier, cos one gets used to it. Not too much of an effort, but the plus side is a very solid grip on the nozzle, and no likelihood of having an eartip stuck in my ear, after taking out an IEM, as I have experienced occasionally with the TRI Clarions. I can expect this XL eartip, will also provide a solid firm grip for IEMs, with smaller bores. So one good eartip, I should be able to use across many IEMs.

Isolation, Excellent. Cuts out noise from the outside, pretty well., So well the relative silence does become disconcerting. Yet I can still hear things like keystrokes as I type on a keyboard, high pitched tones, well enough, but muted, not sure how that is achieved.

Sound. A wide open smoother sound, with less sibilance, compared to the stock tips. Deeper bass, like a subwoofer was switched on "banging" is the word on my mind, feels physical, not just deep, each bass hit is like a proper hit on my ear drum/head, visceral. Vocals definitely more natural, life like.. Everything blends together nicely. Detailed enough without needing to sound treble hyped. These are 1st impressions, but these sound more like I'm listening to speakers positioned near my ears. Very very nice. Smooth, very smooth from bottom to top of the frequency range. A very comfortable listen, Can imagine it would be difficult to experience any fatigue with these. Really really good. Balance of everything voices, to instruments, nothing is over-emphasized, like they all settle in their respective places, yet I can hear everything effortlessly. And this is all without EQ. Now I have no desire to EQ anything. EQ will only be a matter of taste, if I ever do use one, and at that, sparingly, less is more.

Thanks. Thanks a lot.
 
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