napfkuchen
Senior Member
Front left/right will be replaced and (ideally) be wall mounted in the same position.
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Dutch&Dutch add ‘uBacch’ to their 8C active loudspeaker
- Thread starter Purité Audio
- Start date
OP
- Thread Starter
- #102
And the sofa will be moved?
Keith
Keith
napfkuchen
Senior Member
If possible it should stay in place but could be moved towards the back wall. The "middle seat" is centered with the TV so moving it the right is not an option unfortunately.
Or do you want me to move "everything" (speakers, tv, couch) to the right? That's also not possible because of a large window and a dining table, after all it is a living room.
Or do you want me to move "everything" (speakers, tv, couch) to the right? That's also not possible because of a large window and a dining table, after all it is a living room.
I think how close speakers are to each other is less important to how much early reflections you get. Use absorption panels, if possible.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #105
From my experiments here Bacch seems to work best with no close objects ( reflections) so ideally no ‘left’ sofa or coffee table.
Will you wall mount the 8Cs?
Keith
Will you wall mount the 8Cs?
Keith
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Chiming in here. I realize that most of your questions are oriented around Bacch, but I feel I should call out that we're talking about two different things here. How will the 8c work in your space vs. how well Bacch will work in your space.
Judging from your pics, the 8c should work incredibly well. There is no reason that you shouldn't be able to achieve excellent sound.
Adding bacch, as others have suggested, that near wall may prove problematic (regardless of how close you place the speakers together). If Bacch is critically important, you will likely need to treat that near wall to damp and or delay near reflections. The key is delay time between direct sound from the speakers and reflected sound from the side walls. The wall behind the speakers (where the TV is mounted) won't matter because the 8c is acoustically invisible above 100hz where bacch is most critical.
The other thing to note is that you mentioned using the analog out from your TV. That's fine but also won't work with Bacch as u-bacch is only enabled on the streaming input of the 8c.
If you're in a territory that supports it, I'd strongly recommend doing the in-home demo. I suspect that the 8c sound will be mind blowing (they're that good) but also that bacch is more like the cherry on top, not the meal.
Judging from your pics, the 8c should work incredibly well. There is no reason that you shouldn't be able to achieve excellent sound.
Adding bacch, as others have suggested, that near wall may prove problematic (regardless of how close you place the speakers together). If Bacch is critically important, you will likely need to treat that near wall to damp and or delay near reflections. The key is delay time between direct sound from the speakers and reflected sound from the side walls. The wall behind the speakers (where the TV is mounted) won't matter because the 8c is acoustically invisible above 100hz where bacch is most critical.
The other thing to note is that you mentioned using the analog out from your TV. That's fine but also won't work with Bacch as u-bacch is only enabled on the streaming input of the 8c.
If you're in a territory that supports it, I'd strongly recommend doing the in-home demo. I suspect that the 8c sound will be mind blowing (they're that good) but also that bacch is more like the cherry on top, not the meal.
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napfkuchen
Senior Member
Thanks for your replies.
It sounds stupid, but my thought process was simple: With so much money for a pair of speakers, the (relatively) small additional charge for Ubaach is no longer significant. But it's not a priority.
In the spring some work will be necessary in the apartment, including drilling and dirt/dust. But after that I will follow the advice and listen to the speakers at the distributor near me (only about 30 km away from me) and then hopefully test them at home. I have no idea what stereo in “3D” is supposed to sound like, you can certainly only find out for yourself. Since my experience of 3D sound via Dolby Atmos / Auro3D was rather limited, I don't think it's a huge leap.
It sounds stupid, but my thought process was simple: With so much money for a pair of speakers, the (relatively) small additional charge for Ubaach is no longer significant. But it's not a priority.
In the spring some work will be necessary in the apartment, including drilling and dirt/dust. But after that I will follow the advice and listen to the speakers at the distributor near me (only about 30 km away from me) and then hopefully test them at home. I have no idea what stereo in “3D” is supposed to sound like, you can certainly only find out for yourself. Since my experience of 3D sound via Dolby Atmos / Auro3D was rather limited, I don't think it's a huge leap.
Emlin
Major Contributor
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- Jul 8, 2018
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Stereo actually means 3D.Thanks for your replies.
It sounds stupid, but my thought process was simple: With so much money for a pair of speakers, the (relatively) small additional charge for Ubaach is no longer significant. But it's not a priority.
In the spring some work will be necessary in the apartment, including drilling and dirt/dust. But after that I will follow the advice and listen to the speakers at the distributor near me (only about 30 km away from me) and then hopefully test them at home. I have no idea what stereo in “3D” is supposed to sound like, you can certainly only find out for yourself. Since my experience of 3D sound via Dolby Atmos / Auro3D was rather limited, I don't think it's a huge leap.
napfkuchen
Senior Member
Maybe I expressed myself incorrectly... Real 3D would - for me - also include the sound from above and behind with specific channel information. Just like you know from various Blu-Ray discs or Apple Music. To me it usually this sounds very artificial or at best interesting but no better than traditional stereo.
But as I read in a review, Ubaach is more about tidying up the stereo image so that the listener is better enveloped and the stage image has more depth.
Hopefully I'll be able to hear it myself then. In the meantime, I'm just confident that the lack of spatial symmetry won't be that bad, it seems to work here too.
Hi I'm newbie but my 2ps worth:
I trialled the bacch plugin and it made a noticeable improvement on most stuff. There was more depth and separation in the sound stage. There was more air around vocals.
However this was not true if all recordings. In fact, to my ear some "complex" studio recordings (possibly using several mics and multitrack production) seemed to sound worse. I'm not a recording engineer so just a guess. The two albums I noticed it with were Spirit of Eden by Talk Talk and a couple of Spiritualized albums. I know the literature states it is probably most effective with a single mic (live) stereo mix but it would be easier to justify if it covered all bases.
This is not necessarily an issue in some respects because it can be toggled on or off (although this was not particularly straightforward), but the issue is how would one know which would sound better with and without without having to constantly a/b the track being listened to? When you just want to listen to music this would be a distraction.
I owned 8cs for several years now and they are brilliant speakers; I also can't thank the team at Dutch and Dutch enough for shaking things up and giving consumers a product that can be continuously enhanced.
I trialled the bacch plugin and it made a noticeable improvement on most stuff. There was more depth and separation in the sound stage. There was more air around vocals.
However this was not true if all recordings. In fact, to my ear some "complex" studio recordings (possibly using several mics and multitrack production) seemed to sound worse. I'm not a recording engineer so just a guess. The two albums I noticed it with were Spirit of Eden by Talk Talk and a couple of Spiritualized albums. I know the literature states it is probably most effective with a single mic (live) stereo mix but it would be easier to justify if it covered all bases.
This is not necessarily an issue in some respects because it can be toggled on or off (although this was not particularly straightforward), but the issue is how would one know which would sound better with and without without having to constantly a/b the track being listened to? When you just want to listen to music this would be a distraction.
I owned 8cs for several years now and they are brilliant speakers; I also can't thank the team at Dutch and Dutch enough for shaking things up and giving consumers a product that can be continuously enhanced.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #111
‘The Ear’ reviews Dutch&Dutch’s 8c with Bacch
the-ear.net
Keith
Dutch & Dutch 8c Expands Sound With BACCH | The Ear
Earlier this year, Dutch & Dutch announced a firmware update to make the 8c Roon-ready and upgradable with the Bacch third-party plug-in, the world’s
the-ear.net
Interesting: “A smaller, 6C is in development”‘The Ear’ reviews Dutch&Dutch’s 8c with Bacch
KeithDutch & Dutch 8c Expands Sound With BACCH | The Ear
Earlier this year, Dutch & Dutch announced a firmware update to make the 8c Roon-ready and upgradable with the Bacch third-party plug-in, the world’s
OP
- Thread Starter
- #113
I could tell you. all. about it but Martijn would have to kill me.
Keith
Keith
I would be willing to make that trade…
I am looking forward to their floor stander, mentioned occasionally
Emlin
Major Contributor
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Perhaps Martijn has plans to kill Keith by dropping the floorstanders on him unexpectedly!I am looking forward to their floor stander, mentioned occasionally
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OP
- Thread Starter
- #117
Trevor Butler’s conclusion ffom his D&D8C Bacch review.
‘The BACCH plug-in adds extra sophistication to an already technologically-advanced loudspeaker which is capable of producing the most neutral sound I have heard from a transducer. The 8c takes active monitors to a new level and comes at what can only be termed a reasonable price tag. No wonder so many long-standing loudspeaker marques are dabbling with DSP and active systems, with either internal/external crossovers and onboard/external amplification. The trouble is, many seem to see it as an excuse to charge exorbitant amounts for their technology.
In the 8c Dutch & Dutch we have a thoroughly well engineered product which is hand-made in The Netherlands to a very high standard. They have selected decent-sounding amplifier and DAC circuitry to create a hugely tempting package that really can create an all-in-one audio solution. They are ahead of the curve in so many ways because I am sure we will see the future of loudspeaker design following many of the paths that D&D have already explored.
If I were not a reviewer, always needing to swap various components in my system (not least, loudspeakers), I would have no hesitation in purchasing the 8cs today. As it is, I shall have to wait until I retire from this writing game. But few others can have such an excuse and so need to be booking a personal audition because mere words here cannot express just how awesome this product is. Be prepared to amaze your senses and be blown away.’
Keith
‘The BACCH plug-in adds extra sophistication to an already technologically-advanced loudspeaker which is capable of producing the most neutral sound I have heard from a transducer. The 8c takes active monitors to a new level and comes at what can only be termed a reasonable price tag. No wonder so many long-standing loudspeaker marques are dabbling with DSP and active systems, with either internal/external crossovers and onboard/external amplification. The trouble is, many seem to see it as an excuse to charge exorbitant amounts for their technology.
In the 8c Dutch & Dutch we have a thoroughly well engineered product which is hand-made in The Netherlands to a very high standard. They have selected decent-sounding amplifier and DAC circuitry to create a hugely tempting package that really can create an all-in-one audio solution. They are ahead of the curve in so many ways because I am sure we will see the future of loudspeaker design following many of the paths that D&D have already explored.
If I were not a reviewer, always needing to swap various components in my system (not least, loudspeakers), I would have no hesitation in purchasing the 8cs today. As it is, I shall have to wait until I retire from this writing game. But few others can have such an excuse and so need to be booking a personal audition because mere words here cannot express just how awesome this product is. Be prepared to amaze your senses and be blown away.’
Keith
OP
- Thread Starter
- #118
Just a reminder that Purité Audio always have the 8Cs in stock and available for evaluation, if you find yourself anywhere near central London you would be most welcome and the coffee machine has. now been fixed ( at great expense).
Keith
Keith
OP
- Thread Starter
- #119
Trevor Butler reviewed the 8Cs for Jason Kennedy’s ‘The Ear’ there is a link below, including the new Bacch cross talk cancellation plug-in.
The 8Cs remain one of my very favourite loudspeakers, they are imho pretty much ideal for ‘most’ users, completely full-range, cardioid FR ,constant directivity and their almost infinite adjustability ( tone and inbuilt PEQ, REW integration) allows them to just work in every room.
www.puriteaudio.co.uk
Keith
The 8Cs remain one of my very favourite loudspeakers, they are imho pretty much ideal for ‘most’ users, completely full-range, cardioid FR ,constant directivity and their almost infinite adjustability ( tone and inbuilt PEQ, REW integration) allows them to just work in every room.
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OP
- Thread Starter
- #120
The Absolute Sound have reviewed Dutch&Dutch’s 8C with the new Bacch plug in.
I will send a link as soon as I have it.
Keith
I will send a link as soon as I have it.
Keith
