• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Dutch&Dutch add ‘uBacch’ to their 8C active loudspeaker

Purité Audio

Master Contributor
Industry Insider
Barrowmaster
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 29, 2016
Messages
9,611
Likes
13,297
Location
London
The next thrilling instalment of Purité Audio’s unmissable new BLOG!



Keith
 
Last edited:
OP
Purité Audio

Purité Audio

Master Contributor
Industry Insider
Barrowmaster
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 29, 2016
Messages
9,611
Likes
13,297
Location
London
Theoretica,
Pura Audio in the Netherlands, Roel ( another contemporary active advocate) kindly allowed me to use his photograph.
Roel’s blog with more D&D 8C/uBacch collaboration,
Dutch&Dutch 8C @ Purité Audio London


Thanks Roel,
Keith
 
OP
Purité Audio

Purité Audio

Master Contributor
Industry Insider
Barrowmaster
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 29, 2016
Messages
9,611
Likes
13,297
Location
London
Translation,

Dutch & Dutch 8c, but different
Just before that, we were still in a room where discussions were held about the merits of 'ordinary' vinyl versus having your discs treated cryogenically (and maybe the hi-fi- world should still draw the line when using liquid nitrogen, anyway if you want to attract something or something to a wider audience, we think). And then the man comes off with Spotify! Unfortunately, the network didn't want to come along so other streaming options didn't work out. So expectations were rather modest. But then. It sounded very special, and very good. That had everything to do with the firmware that ran on the Dutch & Dutch- speakers. With a beta of an algorithm from Bacch, an audio tech company that has been tinkering with an algorithm for years to display spatial audio via two speakers. To be clear: no upmixing codec, as Dolby offers for example to display Atmos sound through two speakers. And also not to transform stereo into surround, because there are already more than enough options. What Bacch strives for is to improve stereo so that it becomes more realistic.

Dutch & Dutch implements the uBacch version, which does not use headtracking and the like, but already produces a remarkably good result. It's all not final yet and how many Dutch & Dutch owners have to pay to apply the algorithm is also not known. But it is an intriguing evolution, also to illustrate how active streaming speakers are never quite 'ready'. A nice ending to the show, which we would like to use as a kick-off of our report. A first part of a triptych that we will publish spread over this week after a successful fair.


Keith
 
Last edited:
OP
Purité Audio

Purité Audio

Master Contributor
Industry Insider
Barrowmaster
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 29, 2016
Messages
9,611
Likes
13,297
Location
London
More crosstalk cancellation from Stereophile,

Keith
 

andrew

Active Member
Joined
May 3, 2018
Messages
198
Likes
47
Theoretica,
Pura Audio in the Netherlands, Roel ( another contemporary active advocate) kindly allowed me to use his photograph.
Roel’s blog with more D&D 8C/uBacch collaboration,
Dutch&Dutch 8C @ Purité Audio London


Thanks Roel,
Keith
So support for uBacch is to be provided via a firmware upgrade? Any idea as the version or timing?
 

Soniclife

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 13, 2017
Messages
4,525
Likes
5,451
Location
UK
Really interesting, and great to see the computing power from the mini computer being put to use.
This will be a licenced optional purchase?
 
OP
Purité Audio

Purité Audio

Master Contributor
Industry Insider
Barrowmaster
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 29, 2016
Messages
9,611
Likes
13,297
Location
London
So support for uBacch is to be provided via a firmware upgrade? Any idea as the version or timing?
I am afraid I don’t, but I know a man who might! @Martijn Mensink
I think it is really cool though the way the 8Cs have been updated and continue to be.
Keith
 

Martijn Mensink

Member
Industry Insider
Joined
May 4, 2018
Messages
52
Likes
396
Really interesting, and great to see the computing power from the mini computer being put to use.
This will be a licenced optional purchase?
That's right. uBACCH for the 8c's is basically a 3rd party plugin. The software is owned by BACCH Labs, implementation is the result of the joint efforts of developers from both companies. It's going to be an optional one-time purchase, or perhaps a subscription-based model. We're still discussing the details. In any case, what I'd really like is to make a trial version available to anyone who has a pair of 8c's.

So support for uBacch is to be provided via a firmware upgrade? Any idea as the version or timing?

Yes, it's a firmware upgrade just like any other. The uBACCH implementation itself now works, but there is some work left to be done with respect to embedding it in the user interface and being able to turn the availability on and off for individual users, or Dutch & Dutch products. We don't have an official release date yet, but I suspect we'll start rolling it out before the end of the Summer. If you're an 8c user and you'd be interested in being one of the first to try uBACCH, please send us an email at [email protected].

I am afraid I don’t, but I know a man who might! @Martijn Mensink
I think it is really cool though the way the 8Cs have been updated and continue to be.
Keith

Thanks for bringing this to my attention, Keith!
 

Soniclife

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 13, 2017
Messages
4,525
Likes
5,451
Location
UK
In any case, what I'd really like is to make a trial version available to anyone who has a pair of 8c's.
Always a good idea, as I'm guessing it won't be cheap.

What other hardware will you need to get it working? I'm guessing nothing else day to day once configured, but will it require a Mac laptop to do the configuration?
 

Martijn Mensink

Member
Industry Insider
Joined
May 4, 2018
Messages
52
Likes
396
You should kill this idea dead.

Love the tautology :cool:.

Would you mind explaining?

The reason we're considering a subscription is that in its current implementation, we're dependent on other services to be able to provide the BACCH technology to users. In its current implementation, uBACCH works with the 8c's streaming inputs, Spotify Connect and Roon. What if at some point Spotify Connect and/or Roon will be no longer available? Also, we don't know what other cool features we'd like to develop in the future, and we can't know for sure if we'll be able to support uBACCH in combination with that future functionality.

What other hardware will you need to get it working? I'm guessing nothing else day to day once configured, but will it require a Mac laptop to do the configuration?

No other software or hardware will be required. In the Room Matching menu in the 8c's native app (called Ascend) you can already provide all the information required to set up uBACCH for your system.
 

Keith_W

Major Contributor
Joined
Jun 26, 2016
Messages
2,859
Likes
6,575
Location
Melbourne, Australia
Love the tautology :cool:.

Would you mind explaining?

The reason we're considering a subscription is that in its current implementation, we're dependent on other services to be able to provide the BACCH technology to users. In its current implementation, uBACCH works with the 8c's streaming inputs, Spotify Connect and Roon. What if at some point Spotify Connect and/or Roon will be no longer available? Also, we don't know what other cool features we'd like to develop in the future, and we can't know for sure if we'll be able to support uBACCH in combination with that future functionality.

There are some things I am willing to pay subscription for, and some things that I won't. I have subscriptions for news, Idagio, and Google Play because I get a lot of value from them. Idagio has replaced having to buy music, and Google Play provides more functionality than I can name. I used to pay to have newspapers delivered, and I am happy to pay less than what I used to pay for newspapers to get the news digitally. I have no other subscriptions, and I actively avoid ANY service that requires subscriptions when there is a pay once for lifetime access alternative available. For this reason, I do not use Roon when JRiver costs less than 1/10 the price and offers more functionality for me. I do not use Microsoft Office 365 (I use Google Docs instead) and I don't have any smart devices at home which require a subscription (e.g. Arlo, Ring, etc). I would buy Office 365 as a once off if I could keep using it, but I am not going to pay a subscription for a service that I rarely use. More than that, I boycott companies that try to make a fast buck from subscriptions - e.g. Mercedes-Benz asking for a subscription to unlock faster acceleration in electric cars (no more Mercs for me), or BMW installing heated seats in their cars and asking for a subcription to unlock them - so no more BMW's for me either.

From a consumer's point of view, subscriptions suck, period. If you have too many of them and you forget that you have an auto-renewing subscription, that is a lot of money down the drain. I prefer to be in control of my spending. This is why I cancelled my Netflix subscription, because they auto-renew without sending you an email with opt out instructions.

If you need to update your app to take care of future needs, why not follow BACCH's existing model? One off payment, free upgrades and support for one year, and discounted license for future versions.
 
OP
Purité Audio

Purité Audio

Master Contributor
Industry Insider
Barrowmaster
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 29, 2016
Messages
9,611
Likes
13,297
Location
London
I am not too fussed how or how much I want it now.
Best wishes,
Keith
 

Spocko

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 27, 2019
Messages
1,623
Likes
3,009
Location
Southern California
I am not too fussed how or how much I want it now.
Best wishes,
Keith
What are your impressions of this new technology within the context of "it will always be on"? Many things sound great in a demo but then you end up turning it off once the novelty wears off (or for whatever reason). Is this something you envision always being enabled whenever available?
 
OP
Purité Audio

Purité Audio

Master Contributor
Industry Insider
Barrowmaster
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 29, 2016
Messages
9,611
Likes
13,297
Location
London
Spocko you should really ask @Dialectic who already has 8Cs and Bacch, he can turn his off!
I envision it being on all the time, probably more effective with some records more than others.

Keith
 

Dialectic

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 26, 2017
Messages
1,796
Likes
3,245
Location
a fortified compound
What are your impressions of this new technology within the context of "it will always be on"? Many things sound great in a demo but then you end up turning it off once the novelty wears off (or for whatever reason). Is this something you envision always being enabled whenever available?
I never turn it off.
 
Top Bottom