Dutch & Dutch 8Cs

[daftcombo]

Would Amir’s measurements add anything useful beyond the multiple sets of measurements already existing for the speaker?

Before making such an investment, one would like to now if it is so much better than a 300$ speaker.

 

[thewas]

Before making such an investment, one would like to now if it is so much better than a 300$ speaker.

Would he really know? With its measurements (which don't really score a loudspeaker with cardioid behavior up to 100 Hz significantly higher than a conventional loudspeaker) it would get a ranking on one of the top positions of the list, but what is the conclusion for an individual? That he can buy a much cheaper KEF R3 instead which also ranks very high or just an ELAC DBR-62 which gets just one point less? The big difference/adavantage in a room of its cardioid bass which gives almost no SBIR from the front wall reflection cannot be seen through the here done anechoic measurements.

 

[murl]

I can't configure my parametric EQ on lanspeaker now. So far I have tried safari, Firefox, and chrome with no success. For exam in trying to change the frequency I can't enter digits 2-8 but I can enter a 9. Anyone else having this issue?

i should also mention I have tried reloading the web page and restarting the computer.

 

[Dialectic]

i should also mention I have tried reloading the web page and restarting the computer.

I have never had this issue. I have occasionally had an issue with a failure to save my settings immediately after I enter them. While annoying, this issue has always been resolved by reopening my browser (which, when I'm adjusting the speakers, is usually Safari) and/or rebooting the speakers by cycling the power.

 

[JDragon]

Before making such an investment, one would like to now if it is so much better than a 300$ speaker.

What I’m saying is, multiple sets of measurements already exist for this speaker. What do Amir’s measurements add to those?

This is an honest question. I own a pair and may have some speaker downtime in the future. Then would be a great time to send in my one of my 8Cs. I want to know the benefit to spending quite a bit of money and effort on shipping if I were to send one of mine in.

I can tell you subjectively that the 8Cs compare favorably with the KEF Reference 1s, which I also own. The Reference 1s are incredible bookshelf speakers but need a subwoofer and room correction to match the 8Cs.

 

[daftcombo]

What I’m saying is, multiple sets of measurements already exist for this speaker. What do Amir’s measurements add to those?

This is an honest question. I own a pair and may have some speaker downtime in the future. Then would be a great time to send in my one of my 8Cs. I want to know the benefit to spending quite a bit of money and effort on shipping if I were to send one of mine in.

I can tell you subjectively that the 8Cs compare favorably with the KEF Reference 1s, which I also own. The Reference 1s are incredible bookshelf speakers but need a subwoofer and room correction to match the 8Cs.

Perhaps it wouldn't have any benefit for you except the satisfaction to contribute to science & knowledge.

But another goal of this site is to find cheap ways to high fidelity. Amir's objective measurements & subjective listening of the 8C would allow him to state if cheaper speakers (or more expensive ones) can compete or not.

 

[JDragon]

Perhaps it wouldn't have any benefit for you except the satisfaction to contribute to science & knowledge.

But another goal of this site is to find cheap ways to high fidelity. Amir's objective measurements & subjective listening of the 8C would allow him to state if cheaper speakers (or more expensive ones) can compete or not.

Is there actually a contribution if this is just duplicating the existing measurements?

 

[daftcombo]

Is there actually a contribution if this is just duplicating the existing measurements?

I think yes but will let @Amir answer for now.

 

[frangle]

I can't configure my parametric EQ on lanspeaker now. So far I have tried safari, Firefox, and chrome with no success. For exam in trying to change the frequency I can't enter digits 2-8 but I can enter a 9. Anyone else having this issue?

I can enter 7-9 but not 0-6. Maybe we can team up and get a little further... I've sent a couple of emails, but haven't heard anything.

 

[murl]

I can enter 7-9 but not 0-6. Maybe we can team up and get a little further... I've sent a couple of emails, but haven't heard anything.

Good to hear I’m not the only one having the problem.

 

[Absolute]

Is there actually a contribution if this is just duplicating the existing measurements?

Of course. The measurements out there isn't spinorama measurements with a Klippel machine, so not directly comparable to the data ASR is building up. Amir also measures other stuff that'll become more and more interesting to compare as we get more and more speakers with excellent spins but somehow differ more than expected.

We all know the Dutch will measure brilliantly, but we don't know if it will measure more brilliant than Kef R3 or if it'll score higher than the top candidates due to a certain petite smiley-curve as measured by soundstage. For all owners it will be nice to have this data so they can EQ the speaker to "ideal" PIR without having going to the effort of measuring themselves.

It'll be nice to have the pinnacle of technology (Kii and Dutch) as reference points for everyone, me thinks.

 

[murl]

I took measurements of my 8cs yesterday, six measurements for each speaker with the responses averaged. I attempted to make a correction filter to correct 20-300hz using the curve that Toole/Olive suggested that people seem to prefer. The filter definitely attenuated the "peaks" throughout the lower frequencies and the difference is very audible. I'm still trying to decide if I like it. My question relates to why do we not really try to correct any of the "dips." Also is it worthwhile to to correct throughout the entire spectrum? Sorry for the basic questions I am a newb and trying to learn based on my specific situation. I'm really not sure why I have these "dips" in certain areas, I know it has to do with the room throughout the lower frequency but how do you isolate what the problem is, how easy is it to fix, and is it worth it. After the 8cs are Roon Ready I may have mitchco design some filters but I kind of enjoy tinkering with it in the mean time so that I understand some of this. Thanks for the advice.

Also not sure that it matters but I used the convolution filter in Roon rather than the parametric EQ in the 8cs. Lanspeaker was not behaving properly and this seemed much easier.

 

[frangle]

I took measurements of my 8cs yesterday, six measurements for each speaker with the responses averaged. I attempted to make a correction filter to correct 20-300hz using the curve that Toole/Olive suggested that people seem to prefer. The filter definitely attenuated the "peaks" throughout the lower frequencies and the difference is very audible. I'm still trying to decide if I like it. My question relates to why do we not really try to correct any of the "dips." Also is it worthwhile to to correct throughout the entire spectrum? Sorry for the basic questions I am a newb and trying to learn based on my specific situation. I'm really not sure why I have these "dips" in certain areas, I know it has to do with the room throughout the lower frequency but how do you isolate what the problem is, how easy is it to fix, and is it worth it. After the 8cs are Roon Ready I may have mitchco design some filters but I kind of enjoy tinkering with it in the mean time so that I understand some of this. Thanks for the advice.

Also not sure that it matters but I used the convolution filter in Roon rather than the parametric EQ in the 8cs. Lanspeaker was not behaving properly and this seemed much easier.

Cancellation - waves interact and cancel each other out to create a dip. If you increase the amplitude to try to correct for the dip without changing anything else, you just get more cancellation and end up in the same place. The best bet is to change speaker or listening position. If the dip isn't too deep, you can try bringing everything else down to that level, but you can start to compromise dynamic range.

 

[Robert394]

Hello everyone, new poster here hoping to get some guidance/opinions on my question.

I currently have the following setup: Hedd Audio Type 20 speakers + Adam Sub 8. RME ADI2 Dac Version 2.

I'm very pleased with this setup, but largest part of the fun in this hobby for me is discovering a new leap in performance and getting new gear.

Therefore, I'm naturally curious about the Dutch & Dutch 8cs, and how they would compare to the Type 20s.

I'm wondering if anyone can offer some insight (even better if anyone has heard both!).

Are the 8cs likely to be a leap in performance above the Type 20s? Or an incremental improvement? Or a toss-up?

If you believe they would be a leap in audio performance over the Type 20s, in what ways? Clarity, imaging? Soundstage? Thanks

 

[Robert394]

Additionally, I've read in a few places some users complain of a "narrow" sound stage with the 8cs. Can someone who has heard them comment on that? My Type 20s have a very luxuriously wide soundstage that I'm a fan of.

 

[suttondesign]

Additionally, I've read in a few places some users complain of a "narrow" sound stage with the 8cs. Can someone who has heard them comment on that? My Type 20s have a very luxuriously wide soundstage that I'm a fan of.

i am a dutch dealer. i agree that the dutch have a narrow, pinpoint soundstage, esp. in a regular room with walls about a meter or less each side as opposed to a wide-open living room. but the compensation is that buttery smooth frequency response. must be heard to be believed. really something.

 

[Emlin]

i am a dutch dealer. i agree that the dutch have a narrow, pinpoint soundstage, esp. in a regular room with walls about a meter or less each side as opposed to a wide-open living room. but the compensation is that buttery smooth frequency response. must be heard to be believed. really something.

Does "buttery smooth" equate to accurate, or inaccurate, or what?

 

[suttondesign]

flat in-room response

 

[Purité Audio]

Hello everyone, new poster here hoping to get some guidance/opinions on my question.

I currently have the following setup: Hedd Audio Type 20 speakers + Adam Sub 8. RME ADI2 Dac Version 2.

I'm very pleased with this setup, but largest part of the fun in this hobby for me is discovering a new leap in performance and getting new gear.

Therefore, I'm naturally curious about the Dutch & Dutch 8cs, and how they would compare to the Type 20s.

I'm wondering if anyone can offer some insight (even better if anyone has heard both!).

Are the 8cs likely to be a leap in performance above the Type 20s? Or an incremental improvement? Or a toss-up?

If you believe they would be a leap in audio performance over the Type 20s, in what ways? Clarity, imaging? Soundstage? Thanks

I have both, if you want the ‘best’ and can afford them get the 8Cs, having said that the 20’s are a really enjoyable speaker, whether they are better than comparable Genelec, NEUMANN et et you would have to decide.
Keith

 

[Soniclife]

That's usually a browser time out. Every browser is a bit different in this respect. Having a browser-based application has advantages, but this definitely is one of the drawbacks. Refreshing/reloading is the only option here.






These are important questions. Give me a couple of days to answer them. I'll also take the time to read through these last couple of pages as well - which for some reason I missed - and I'll address other important questions.

Did these answers get posted somewhere?