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DSD playback

beanxinh

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Hi,
I'm a newbie and I'm looking for a cheap small portable DAC/AMP that can playback DSD but I'm quite confuse because on the specs of a lot of DAC/AMP only show thing like 24/192 Khz (like this one https://vi.aliexpress.com/item/3293...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_) and mention nothing about DSD playback capacity.
So If I buy those device can I playback DSD ? I hear that on unsupported devices DSD file will be convert on the fly and suffer a reduction in quality.
Thank.
 

Veri

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If it's not mentioned there's a big chance it's not supported. In any case most software players can transcode it to PCM which any DAC can understand..
 
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beanxinh

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majingotan

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Hi,
I'm a newbie and I'm looking for a cheap small portable DAC/AMP that can playback DSD but I'm quite confuse because on the specs of a lot of DAC/AMP only show thing like 24/192 Khz (like this one https://vi.aliexpress.com/item/3293...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_) and mention nothing about DSD playback capacity.
So If I buy those device can I playback DSD ? I hear that on unsupported devices DSD file will be convert on the fly and suffer a reduction in quality.
Thank.

The DAC on that website clearly shows DSD64 supported BTW
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majingotan

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BTW, the music player that you're using should detect whether your DAC supports DSD, and make sure that there's no conversion to PCM by selecting DSD over PCM output:

Capture.PNG
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majingotan

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PC
 
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beanxinh

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Playback of DSD files does not depend on the DAC chip in the device, but on the input USB chip that can recognize the DSD files.

So can DoP bypass this? I asked a guy in E1DA 9038s forum and he said that DSD native play back will only avaiable in next gen E1DA 9038s so that maybe relate to USB chip as you said but I can't wait till the next gen come out (probably take a while with the epidemic in China) so I plan to get the current gen anyway.
 

majingotan

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Thank I'm using mobile phone and the specs did't show that :). BTW the Tempotech spec show that they can support natively upto DSD128 with the same DAC chip so that may be related to the USB chip they uesd as Zek said.

Hmm, not familiar with mobile phone apps (iOS and Android) that supports DSD support. I’ve heard of UAAP app that supposed to bypass Android mixer/oversampling.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.extreamsd.usbaudioplayerpro&hl=en

Hopefully someone that uses portable listening rig might chime in. I typically use streaming apps for iOS and play only locally stored 16 bit ALAC files through the default iOS music app
 

majingotan

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So can DoP bypass this? I asked a guy in E1DA 9038s forum and he said that DSD native play back will only avaiable in next gen E1DA 9038s so that maybe relate to USB chip as you said but I can't wait till the next gen come out (probably take a while with the epidemic in China) so I plan to get the current gen anyway.

DoP is also pure DSD just masquerading as PCM so that the USB module can decode the DSD stream correctly to the DAC. Newer USB chips support native DSD playback which would have much less bandwidth requirements than DoP playback. BTW, you can also DoP over optical or coaxial SPDIF in case you’re wondering since the stream is “seen” as PCM. Not sure about native DSD playback though. My Chord Mojo USB and Optical input only supports DoP but optical is limited to DSD64 only (it is carried as 24 bit 176.4 KHz PCM wrapper)
 

ZolaIII

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Regarding mobile space I find Onkyo HF player as the best & most mature one when it comes to DSD playback, it also shows you what DAC supports when you connect it (don't show you in which mode it's supposed). HF also does PCM to DSD conversion (anything to DSD) if you wish that in the flight. Neutron has similar ability regarding conversion to DSD & it's more versatile regarding suported formats deciding & has limited streaming abilities but it's not a most stable solution & Android only. USB player is most versatile regarding streaming, has MQA decoder (additional in app purchase) and its stable. HiBy Music is totally free and does everything alright. FiiO Music is totally free but not very stable so use it only if you have to. Mentioned TempoTec Sonata iDSD Plus & it's little brother Sonata iDSD suport both native & DoP (DoP is DSD over PCM line open source transport USB protocol [works & without USB & on old DAC's that don't really have DSD suport]) DSD modes up to DSD128 (DoP as protocol is limited to it anyway). In the flight conversion to DSD is a processing intensive task (2x A72 @ 2 GHz for DSD 64 & twice as much for DSD128). They also have so called magic input line over USB A port with HibyMusic app which is handy (especially on iOS devices) as it doesn't require OTG cable but plain any one. The modern Snapdragon SoC's integrated DAC's (couple gens back starting from mid range ones) also have native DSD support, Android audio driver infrastructure is still a limiting factor in case of their use.
Hope that helps.
 
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MC_RME

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Neutron has similar ability regarding conversion to DSD & it's more versatile regarding suported formats deciding & has limited streaming abilities but it's not a most stable solution & Android only.

Neutron is very stable and available also for iOS, Windows and Blackberry:

https://neutronmp.com/buy
 

dshreter

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Is there scientific evidence that there are real benefits to DSD over PCM? I’ve always assumed these were digitally interchangeable, so don’t really understand the point.
 

majingotan

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Is there scientific evidence that there are real benefits to DSD over PCM? I’ve always assumed these were digitally interchangeable, so don’t really understand the point.

AFAIK, both are lossless formats so there's zero sonic difference between the two. Mastering technique is still the determining factor. However, I never liked DSD playback as it's incredibly memory intensive

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ZolaIII

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Is there scientific evidence that there are real benefits to DSD over PCM? I’ve always assumed these were digitally interchangeable, so don’t really understand the point.
Well pulse dense modulation introduces some distortion as frequency increase & brings back some "physicality" which is actually evoluted as plesent and judged as better in reacent study.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...igh-resolution-recordings-in-pcm-and-dsd.152/
They are not interchangeable, when you convert back to PCM it sounds horrible.
@MC_RME well at least on Android it's not stable especially for DSD.
 
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majingotan

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They are not interchangeable, when you convert back to PCM it sounds horrible.

This I experience subjectively. Audirvana's DSD to PCM conversion as well as Foobar2000 SACD plugin has audible artifacts unfortunately when using my Schiit Bifrost 2 DAC and my display monitor speakers. DoP using Chord Mojo is played perfectly without any audible distortion/artifacts.
 
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