Do recapping crossovers can "repair" dark loudspeaker that should be bright (include original charts)

[FilipKozubek]

Good morning

After Jim Taylor wrote to me "The speaker DOES have a definite rising treble.". It started for me another topic.

I'm writing about "renovating" (recap) crossovers (also a general question whether it makes sense, if I'm thinking correctly)

My first thought came after finding these charts, where you can see that higher frequencies tend to go up

and reading the test quote "the musicians are young, they were eating breakfast", it made me think because after various listening sessions the speakers seemed to be dark, without treble, expression, and a deep soundstage.

So I tried to take a simple measurement with my iPhone... (but it will probably always show something), and...

Well, as it seemed to me, there really is no treble.
after a "powerful" increase of about 11 db in the 10 kHz range... in my equalizer, the speakers seemed to recovered life, space and three-dimensionality.

I could live with it, but I guess I wouldn't be myself if I didn't try to restore their range to its originality.
The problem arises when connecting a turntable or other sources where I do not want to use a digital equalizer, but mainly in trying to obtain the best possible speaker effect.

So the question is: could it be the fault of the crossovers?

The amplifier is a NAD C328, so it is very neutral, qed silver cables are rather bright "open", I tested the speakers on other amplifiers, the treble was always missing, so I deduce that the problem may be with the crossovers.


Dali Mentor 6 speakers

Thanks

 

[Doodski]

Good morning

After Jim Taylor wrote to me "The speaker DOES have a definite rising treble.". It started for me another topic.

I'm writing about "renovating" (recap) crossovers (also a general question whether it makes sense, if I'm thinking correctly)

My first thought came after finding these charts, where you can see that higher frequencies tend to go up

View attachment 373531View attachment 373533



and reading the test quote "the musicians are young, they were eating breakfast", it made me think because after various listening sessions the speakers seemed to be dark, without treble, expression, and a deep soundstage.

So I tried to take a simple measurement with my iPhone... (but it will probably always show something), and...

View attachment 373534
Well, as it seemed to me, there really is no treble.
after a "powerful" increase of about 11 db in the 10 kHz range... in my equalizer, the speakers seemed to recovered life, space and three-dimensionality.

I could live with it, but I guess I wouldn't be myself if I didn't try to restore their range to its originality.
The problem arises when connecting a turntable or other sources where I do not want to use a digital equalizer, but mainly in trying to obtain the best possible speaker effect.

So the question is: could it be the fault of the crossovers?

The amplifier is a NAD C328, so it is very neutral, qed silver cables are rather bright "open", I tested the speakers on other amplifiers, the treble was always missing, so I deduce that the problem may be with the crossovers.


Dali Mentor 6 speakers

Thanks

You might enjoy the Parks Puffin digital phono preamp.

Otherwise about your speakers it is improbable (but not impossible.) that the caps in your speakers are causing missing treble. Have you frequency swept the speakers to confirm the tweeter operation and no issues with the drivers? If not then use this sine wave generator and sweep from low to highs. Do not go super loud on the tweeters as a midrange volume output is suitable and for the woofers generally turn the volume up slowly till you find a suitable setting without damaging the speakers.

Online Tone Generator - generate pure tones of any frequency

szynalski.com

 

[FilipKozubek]

Ok I've done test and on about 11-12khz it's almost -12-13db, than 13khz.. up to ~ -8db

 

[Doodski]

Ok I've done test and on about 11-12khz it's almost -12-13db, than 13khz.. up to ~ -8db

Those numbers mean little to nothing to me. How loud was it and did you hear anything considered bad?

 

[kemmler3D]

If the speakers are old and there really is missing treble, the crossovers could be a problem, also make sure that the ribbons are not damaged. I guess since they have a 2-way treble section, there is plenty of opportunity for issues.

 

[FilipKozubek]

Ok, sorry generally 20hz-10khz was thereabout on 40db and from 10khz it started to go down to 27db.

 

[LSPhil]

Women are not asked their age, but you can reveal how old you are.
I'm sorry but I think time is taking its toll.

 

[Doodski]

Ok, sorry generally 20hz-10khz was thereabout on 40db and from 10khz it started to go down to 27db.

How loud was it in simple English and could you hear the tweeter outputting high frequency sine waves.

 

[FilipKozubek]

I could hear tweeter outputting high frequencies, and nothing was wrong about it for my ears on specific frequencies

 

[Doodski]

I could hear tweeter outputting high frequencies, and nothing was wrong about it for my ears on specific frequencies

Then the drivers are working OK if no obvious buzzes, crackling, rattling and snapping sounds can be heard. The crossovers are most likely alright too. Are you absolutely sure the high frequencies sound lesser than before and when was before?

 

[FilipKozubek]

I am only assuming that from the charts that I send above and tests that says this speakers are bright with raised treble.

 

[Doodski]

I am only assuming that from the charts that I send above and tests that says this speakers are bright with raised treble.

There is also the room acoustics at play here so you might have lowered high frequency response or you just like more high frequency. Are you using PEQ on your gear but not with the turntable/phono?

 

[DWPress]

The charts you are comparing to might be from an anechoic chamber measurement but are otherwise the industry standard of 1 watt 1 meter @ tweeter axis so unless you are following the same measurement protocol you will see deviations. If I measure my speakers at listening position (4 meters) my tweeters dive down at 16kHz but in near field they measure fine. In fact I have to pad my tweeters down -14dB just to level match with woofers and midrange.

 

[FilipKozubek]

There is also the room acoustics at play here so you might have lowered high frequency response or you just like more high frequency. Are you using PEQ on your gear but not with the turntable/phono?

yes

 

[Doodski]

yes

The next step is to use the free REW (Room EQ Wizard.) combined with one of these calibrated USB microphones and measure the room and the frequency response and then we can see what is going on. If you want to go that far.