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Dirac Live Exclamation Mark issue

middlemarch

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Which ones are compatible with macOS?
REW is native. I use Parallels with Windows 11 to run MSO and others, which works fine. All on an M1Pro MB pro. Ratbuddesy works fine this way as well if you wish to play with Audessy. Only problem I have is with MultEQ-X, which won't even download.
 

Davide

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To be sure to understand, the orange curve should be more horizontal or nearer the 0 ms as the red one. So you interpret the result as if DLBC produce to much delays below 70Hz instead of helping?. And you say this difference is audible. ? I must find how to hear it.
But is it true for only the MLP measurement that I took? If I put the mic elsewhere, the GD should be different isn't it? But I have taken 13 measurements. Does an "average GD achievable?
If I open a ticket what should I explain or point out?
Yes, to be not audible the GD should remain below 50ms at 20hz if I'm not mistaken. I should go and review but I'm a bit busy now.

In fact, it is not easy to make a valid comparison to determine the audibility. I compare with AudioLense and AB switch plugin. I also tried roughly correcting the phase with Rephase to flatten the GD, but it's not that simple because it gets out of phase respect to mains.

However, if you make various measurements in your listening area you shouldn't get very different curves of GD, ignoring the peaks.

However, the most representative thing of Dirac's abnormal behavior is a measurement of GD with and without it.
If the raw response (of subs) has low GD and with Dirac this goes up a lot, this is the thing to report to technical support.
 

Davide

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Which ones are compatible with macOS?
There are Dirac, Focus Fidelity and Rew that work natively.
Audiolense and Acourate, but also Rephase and MSO are Win based, but filters can be exported to Mac.
Except Dirac however you have to use a convolver, and actually for Mac there are HLC, MCFX and SPARTA.
 
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Keith_W

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I was also told about Eclipse Audio's FIR Designer - that runs on a Mac. It is expensive though. Cheaper than Dirac, but expensive compared to Acourate, Audiolense, and of course REW is free.
 

Esprit

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There are Dirac
I have Dirac (in the drawer and I haven't used it yet), given all the problems I read I'm trying to understand if it makes sense to use it or not.
My future, hopefully not too distant, is called GLM by Genelec.
 

Davide

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Bernt (Audiolense) to me is one of the most expert in DRC.
Here he suggests that a MIMO correction over a large area can lead to a worsening in excess phase problems. Not clear to me if in terms of GD value or magnitude.
DLBC, from what I understand, should adopt MIMO technology on subs only (while ART also uses other speakers).
So maybe the point is here, who knows...
Anyway, what Bernt writes in that thread about VBA/DBA/MIMO is very interesting. I suggest reading.
 
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Malcesine

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Just to share similar negative experience of Dirac LE on a NAD C658 streamer/DAC adjusting only <300Hz
Dirac moves the image severely to right and/or seriously disperses the centre image, flattens the energy and soul of the music.
lt also absolutely changes and destroys the response above 300Hz too, even though I am supposed to have low frequency version only.

If you take only one central measurement point, the image is slightly better but all the other issues remain.
I also tried measuring deliberately the centre point at the right of centre to try and counter - worked somewhat but still poor.

Glad it seems to be a fault that I hope is resolved soon - as otherwise I can't believe anyone would buy or use this system, certainly for stereo but also or home movies as proven by a similarly poor implementation on my Arcam AVR.
 

PeterNL

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Just to share similar negative experience of Dirac LE on a NAD C658 streamer/DAC adjusting only <300Hz
Dirac moves the image severely to right and/or seriously disperses the centre image, flattens the energy and soul of the music.
lt also absolutely changes and destroys the response above 300Hz too, even though I am supposed to have low frequency version only.

If you take only one central measurement point, the image is slightly better but all the other issues remain.
I also tried measuring deliberately the centre point at the right of centre to try and counter - worked somewhat but still poor.

Glad it seems to be a fault that I hope is resolved soon - as otherwise I can't believe anyone would buy or use this system, certainly for stereo but also or home movies as proven by a similarly poor implementation on my Arcam AVR.
Very strange while I've never experienced any problems using and measuring Dirac (PC version using Umik-1), maybe once Dirac recognized impulse in the first measurement wrong.
I'm using old Intel NUC scull canyon with windows 10 and old Laptop Dell also with windows 10 in my other setup.
Are you measuring it good ? I mean:
IMG_20240522_184424.jpg

Two persons on this picture are facing toward listening position, all points are creating virtual 3 cubes/boxes where only main/first measuring point is at the ears distance and height.
But probably it is very obvious.

I am also curious what is causing problems which some of us experienced.
 

Malcesine

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Very strange while I've never experienced any problems using and measuring Dirac (PC version using Umik-1), maybe once Dirac recognized impulse in the first measurement wrong.
I'm using old Intel NUC scull canyon with windows 10 and old Laptop Dell also with windows 10 in my other setup.
Are you measuring it good ? I mean:
View attachment 370785
Two persons on this picture are facing toward listening position, all points are creating virtual 3 cubes/boxes where only main/first measuring point is at the ears distance and height.
But probably it is very obvious.

I am also curious what is causing problems which some of us experienced.
Pretty sure measuring correctly (tried multiple configurations), I go with the very narrow single seat listening position and even when measuring one central position, it's still very poor - although image is closer to being central at least.
 

Great Sun Jester

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@ppataki
 
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ppataki

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Apparently nothing has been fixed....

These are four measurements with the following results:

1716404834229.png


None of them is usable....
@Flak I do appreciate the efforts of the team but it seems that the issue is still there...
 
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ppataki

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Some more updates:

I have done 4 more measurements to see what happens:

1716406317504.png


The highlighted one is fine!
The red one seems to have a nicer FR in the high end but it has an awful phase curve, see:

1716406478610.png


So indeed it can work if one tries hard enough
But for a 'normal' user this is totally not acceptable behavior, especially for a payable software
 
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ppataki

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Did you get any "!" errors when doing the measurements?
I did not
Which is very worrying since a 'normal' user would have no idea that the measurement is useless (unless he/she performs a verification measurement with REW just like I did and/or checking how it sounds by ear)
 

RenPa

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@ppataki please help me to understand your screenshot. For instance mk1_2: is it one measurement with DLBC filter on? I am Arcam AVR21 owner and try to know if the last beta is worth it. For the context all Arcam and JBL receivers owners are stuck with 3.4.4 firmware versions because above it it is broken for us and we still wait for fixes to many bugs.
 
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ppataki

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For instance mk1_2: is it one measurement with DLBC filter on?
All the 8 measurements above were done with Dirac Live correction on (not DLBC but regular Dirac Live)
So this means that I had to perform altogether 8 measurements to have one that is sort of OK-ish (the delay values for the rear channels were totally wrong, hence I am saying OK-ish)

are stuck with 3.4.4 firmware versions because above it it is broken for us and we still wait for fixes to many bugs.
Are you sure that 3.4.4 works fine for you?
I have tried that and although I do not get an exclamation mark issue the correction is still wrong, see post 42 here
I would perform some verification measurements with REW to see if it works fine
 

PeterNL

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Some more updates:

I have done 4 more measurements to see what happens:

View attachment 370819

The highlighted one is fine!
The red one seems to have a nicer FR in the high end but it has an awful phase curve, see:

View attachment 370820

So indeed it can work if one tries hard enough
But for a 'normal' user this is totally not acceptable behavior, especially for a payable software
Both channels or Left/Right ?
 
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