• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required as is 20 years of participation in forums (not all true). Come here to have fun, be ready to be teased and not take online life too seriously. We now measure and review equipment for free! Click here for details.

Dirac Live Bass Management?

Joined
May 14, 2016
Messages
53
Likes
53
They don't show it, they explain how to achieve it.
Stated differently, they purport to show how to achieve it, but don't show actual results. The absence of actual results ought to concern people who value evidence over unsubstantiated clains.

I have yet to see precise anechoic measurement showing true LF cutoff.
So no actual anechoic measurements of LF cutoff even exist in your view? That's a bold statement.
 

QMuse

Major Contributor
Joined
Feb 20, 2020
Messages
2,948
Likes
2,337
Stated differently, they purport to show how to achieve it, but don't show actual results. The absence of actual results ought to concern people who value evidence over unsubstantiated clains.
Geddes haven't conducted any organised listening tests, but Toole did. What he did is an extension of Toole's work where he proved more subs equals more even soundfield. Are you disputing that?

In scenario where oyu can accomodate only one sub, don't you think it is a good idea to have your large mains highpassed at say 40Hz to assist subs in the 40-80Hz range instead of highpassing them at 80Hz like they are small bookshelves?

So no actual anechoic measurements of LF cutoff even exist in your view? That's a bold statement.
Of course they exist, it's the accuracy of anechoic measurement below 80Hz which is problematic.
 
Joined
May 14, 2016
Messages
53
Likes
53
Geddes haven't conducted any organised listening tests, but Toole did. What he did is an extension of Toole's work where he proved more subs equals more even soundfield. Are you disputing that?
Not at all. In fact, I'm glad you acknoweged his work to have been derived for Harman's (which was not Toole's, but Welti and Devantier).

In scenario where you can accomodate only one sub, don't you think it is a good idea to have your large mains highpassed at say 40Hz to assist subs in the 40-80Hz range instead of highpassing them at 80Hz like they are small bookshelves?
It all depends on the data. One thing that Earl says, with which I agree 100% is, "If you don't measure, you don't know what you have." With a single sub, one ought to be satisfied with measurements at a single listening position, as there isn't a possibility of optimizing multiple positions. How one ought to treat this problem depends on what kind of measurements one can achieve at the listening position.
 

QMuse

Major Contributor
Joined
Feb 20, 2020
Messages
2,948
Likes
2,337
It all depends on the data.
I don't think so. IMO having 2 large mains supporting a single sub in the 40-80Hz range is always beneficial assuming you did a good job with frequency and phase response EQ. That way you have 1 "normal" and 2 "small" subs working at 3 locations instead of 1 "normal" sub working from a single location. As Toole'e research confirmed 3 subs pretty much always provide more even soundfield than a single sub.
 
Joined
May 14, 2016
Messages
53
Likes
53
I don't think so. IMO having 2 large mains supporting a single sub in the 40-80Hz range is always beneficial assuming you did a good job with frequency and phase response EQ. That way you have 1 "normal" and 2 "small" subs working at 3 locations instead of 1 "normal" sub working from a single location. As Toole'e research confirmed 3 subs pretty much always provide more even soundfield than a single sub.
I'm a bit baffled by your response. On the one hand, you asked abut the apparent benefits of high-pass filtering the main speakers at 40 Hz vs. 80 Hz using a single sub. I responded that it depends on the data. But then you say that having main speakers crossed over between 40 Hz and 80 Hz is beneficial, then talk about multiple subs (which wasn't part of the original question).
 

QMuse

Major Contributor
Joined
Feb 20, 2020
Messages
2,948
Likes
2,337
I'm a bit baffled by your response. On the one hand, you asked abut the apparent benefits of high-pass filtering the main speakers at 40 Hz vs. 80 Hz using a single sub. I responded that it depends on the data. But then you say that having main speakers crossed over between 40 Hz and 80 Hz is beneficial, then talk about multiple subs (which wasn't part of the original question).
You should read my posts more carefully: instead of scenario with 1 sub and 2 large mains crossed at 80Hz I proposed to have 1 sub low passed at 80Hz and 2 mains high passed at lower frequency, say 40Hz. I also said that I expect that scenario to be better in pretty much every case and regardless of any "data", so I proposed @Flak to consider supporting that scenario in some future version of Dirac.
No offense, but discussion with you is becoming kind of tiresome and as such doesn't fit well with enjoying coffee on this sunny morning, so ..
 

dkinric

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2018
Messages
308
Likes
472
Location
Richmond, VA USA
@Flak , Flavio, Any update on the DL 3.0 release (which incorporates Bass Control according to you)?

MiniDSP is ignoring multiple questions on their forums regarding this, which is very poor customer service IMO. Specifically, they are asked about whether their flagship products like the SHD will eventually incorporate DLBC (ie. DL 3.0). They could at least say we don't know yet, but instead, just crickets.

Also, I understand you cannot comment on which hardware will incorporate this until it's been announced (ie. Storm Audio), but if you could help point out those announcements here, it would be much appreciated!
 

tecnogadget

Active Member
Joined
May 21, 2018
Messages
201
Likes
338
Location
Madrid, Spain
@Flak , Flavio, Any update on the DL 3.0 release (which incorporates Bass Control according to you)?

MiniDSP is ignoring multiple questions on their forums regarding this, which is very poor customer service IMO. Specifically, they are asked about whether their flagship products like the SHD will eventually incorporate DLBC (ie. DL 3.0). They could at least say we don't know yet, but instead, just crickets.

Also, I understand you cannot comment on which hardware will incorporate this until it's been announced (ie. Storm Audio), but if you could help point out those announcements here, it would be much appreciated!
I understand your comment about MiniDSP being evasive about updates or future products, I’ve been there trust me.

But I would not call them bad customer service at all. I troubleshooted a defect in one of their products many years after warranty expired and they provided me with exceptional support, most companies wouldn’t care at all.

IMHO it’s a marketing strategy to not disclosure info for future products, and at the same time they don’t want to promise something they can’t deliver until is done. Development most of the time suffers from unexpected delays.
Concerning Dirac, miniDSP is just licensing the tech, it’s understandable they have issues implementing it with their hardware being a small company. Its not an easy task.
For what i’ve been told at Dirac they are in communication with miniDSP on a weekly basis.
 

dkinric

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2018
Messages
308
Likes
472
Location
Richmond, VA USA
Fair enough, I agree this issue does not define the company. However, they have active mods that comment and answer questions, and all they have to say is that they have no info to share at this time, but will do so as soon as they can. To simply ignore the questions, in multiple threads, by multiple posters, leaves a bad impression imho. It's a legitimate question and the lack of response is already causing me to investigate other options.

Anyway, DL 3.0 looks like a great tool to maximize the SQ of a system, and will likely be a part of my next upgrade. Hopefully Flavio can stay active here and share what he can.
 
Joined
Apr 28, 2020
Messages
3
Likes
2
Dirac Live Bass Control is now included with StormAudio, JBL Synthesis and some Audio Control products. Single Sub ($349) and Multi-sub ($499) Dirac Live Bass Control Upgrades now available for Arcam AVR10, AVR20, AVR30, AV40 and Audio Control Concert XR-4. Hopefully coming to other hardware products soon.

https://live.dirac.com/home-audio/
 

Music1969

Major Contributor
Joined
Feb 19, 2018
Messages
1,043
Likes
320
Hi @Flak

With Dirac Live Processor on macOS now, if I use a multichannel USB DAC and use some channels for multiple subwoofers, can I use Dirac Live Bass Control right now?

If not right now, when is this likely to work?
 

Flak

Member
Industry Insider
Joined
Nov 18, 2018
Messages
61
Likes
84
Hi @Flak

With Dirac Live Processor on macOS now, if I use a multichannel USB DAC and use some channels for multiple subwoofers, can I use Dirac Live Bass Control right now?

If not right now, when is this likely to work?
Yes, we are presently beta testing the multichannel Dirac Live Processor and Bass Control will follow
 

Music1969

Major Contributor
Joined
Feb 19, 2018
Messages
1,043
Likes
320
Yes, we are presently beta testing the multichannel Dirac Live Processor and Bass Control will follow
Thanks! If I purchase Dirac Live® for Studio plugin license now for US$349, will multichannel DLP + Bass Control be a free upgrade or additional cost?
 

Flak

Member
Industry Insider
Joined
Nov 18, 2018
Messages
61
Likes
84
Thanks! If I purchase Dirac Live® for Studio plugin license now for US$349, will multichannel DLP + Bass Control be a free upgrade or additional cost?
Pricing has not been decided yet but it will be an additional cost
 
Top Bottom