Dirac Live Bass Control coming to Dirac Live Stereo This YEAR!!

[theREALdotnet]

if I pass 5.2.2 to avr, the avr will still need 2 discrete sub outs (not 2 subouts in parallel) for dlbc to work?

If it’s a 5.2.2 AVR then it would have two separate sub outputs, wouldn’t it? If it’s not then it would probably sum the two sub channels and output them through the single output. DLBC will still work with two subs summed as one, but you’ll lose a lot potential for good bass response in the room. You‘d also have to align them first manually, so that they don’t play out of phase with each other etc.

my htpc is windows with nvidia card. it seems Apple 3.5mm dongle will work with pc with uac (not sure what that means). Is that true? but I think I saw the need to aggregate dacs and it can't be easily done in windows? (I did see someone mention a freeware)

Sorry, I can’t help with Windows questions, I’m sure someone else will chime in. But yes, (for stereo) DLBC needs to see an output device that has as many inputs as L + R + number of subs. In macOS you would combine the USB DACs as aggregate audio device, which you’d then give to DLBC to output to.

 

[juliangst]

In Windows you can make a virtual multichannel DAC with VoiceMeeter Banana or VoiceMeeter Potato for up to 5 devices.
Not sure if this will work with a multichannel device like an AVR. I think you can only combine stereo DACs.
Windows is just terrible for stuff like that.

I would just use a MiniDSP for sub integration if the AVR doesn't have seperate sub outs or get a new AVR with DLBC like the Marantz Cinema 50.
The whole Voicemeeter multichannel setup will a terribly complicated and I'm not sure if it will even work like that.

 

[Idanonymous]

If it’s a 5.2.2 AVR then it would have two separate sub outputs, wouldn’t it? If it’s not then it would probably sum the two sub channels and output them through the single output. DLBC will still work with two subs summed as one, but you’ll lose a lot potential for good bass response in the room. You‘d also have to align them first manually, so that they don’t play out of phase with each other etc.



Sorry, I can’t help with Windows questions, I’m sure someone else will chime in. But yes, (for stereo) DLBC needs to see an output device that has as many inputs as L + R + number of subs. In macOS you would combine the USB DACs as aggregate audio device, which you’d then give to DLBC to output to.

Once again, thanks for the detailed reply and confirmation. just planning on how to approach my next purchase.

 

[Idanonymous]

In Windows you can make a virtual multichannel DAC with VoiceMeeter Banana or VoiceMeeter Potato for up to 5 devices.
Not sure if this will work with a multichannel device like an AVR. I think you can only combine stereo DACs.
Windows is just terrible for stuff like that.

I would just use a MiniDSP for sub integration if the AVR doesn't have seperate sub outs or get a new AVR with DLBC like the Marantz Cinema 50.
The whole Voicemeeter multichannel setup will a terribly complicated and I'm not sure if it will even work like that.

thanks for replying to the windows question. I might get an apple laptop. so it's good to know use case of standalone for both os. does paying for the standalone license get access to both windows and Mac os? (I am aware it can only be installed on 1 device)

 

[djn04]

This looks like the most active thread on DLBC so I thought I would ask here. Does anyone know of a 2-channel integrated or preamp that offers DLBC now or coming in the near future? I heard talk about the NAD M33 but that hasn't happened yet.

Also curious if DLBC would be a big step up in performance in a 2.2 setup vs the standard Direct Live offered in the NAD and others.

Apologies if this is the wrong thread for this question.

 

[Ricwa]

Can’t answer your first question but yes, I’ve found DLBC to be a big step up in my 2.2 system. Well worth the upgrade for the reduction in “hassle-factor” alone.

 

[djn04]

Can’t answer your first question but yes, I’ve found DLBC to be a big step up in my 2.2 system. Well worth the upgrade for the reduction in “hassle-factor” alone.

Thanks! What are you using for hardware/components? If I went the PC route I think my options would be PC into a multichannel DAC with two channels to amp and two channels to subs. I use Roon so I would need to figure out how to route Roon to Dirac to USB output. Ideally, I'd like to control volume via Roon as well.

 

[Ricwa]

I use a PC running Roon and Dirac with USB to an RME ADI-2/4 Pro SE in multichannel mode, 2 mains + 2 subs. Note that is you go the PC or Mac route, the hassle factor increases significantly.

 

[theREALdotnet]

If I went the PC route I think my options would be PC into a multichannel DAC with two channels to amp and two channels to subs. I use Roon so I would need to figure out how to route Roon to Dirac to USB output. Ideally, I'd like to control volume via Roon as well.

Dirac Live Processor on the PC will be configured to output to the multi-channel USB DAC. Roon will be configured to output to the Dirac Virtual Audio Device (at least that’s what it’s called on the Mac). Volume control has to be done in Roon, unless the multi-channel DAC has some form of volume control. In my case, where the multi-channel DAC is actually two separate DACs, it obviously doesn’t.

 

[Ricwa]

Dirac Live Processor on the PC will be configured to output to the multi-channel USB DAC. Roon will be configured to output to the Dirac Virtual Audio Device (at least that’s what it’s called on the Mac). Volume control has to be done in Roon, unless the multi-channel DAC has some form of volume control. In my case, where the multi-channel DAC is actually two separate DACs, it obviously doesn’t.

I had problems with mult-channel USB DACs on a Mac. I tried configuring as an aggregate device and enabling drift compensation, but in the very best case, I'd still occasional stutters in the audio feed at least once every few minutes or so. I was running an old (2014) Mac Mini. However, from surfing various forums I see people reporting audio stuttering on M1 and M2 macs. Bottom line is that for me, the aggregate device solution was inadequate.

With a PC using the RME ADI-2/4 Pro SE, the Dirac Live Processor can be configured for multi-channel once you've installed RME's ASIO Madiface driver. I needed to set the buffer size to 2048 or 4096 to prevent audio skips. I am using a (cheap but fast Ryzen 5600U) mini PC. I had to insert a Topping HS02 to prevent HF usb audio "hash" bleeding through to the speakers. Like I said (above), the hassle-factor increases once you go with a PC. For me, it's worth it because I enjoy the tinkering. Finally, the sound with DLBC vs Dirac alone was, for me, a significant improvement. I'd been using Multi-Sub Optimizer previously.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

I had problems with mult-channel USB DACs on a Mac. I tried configuring as an aggregate device and enabling drift compensation, but in the very best case, I'd still occasional stutters in the audio feed at least once every few minutes or so. I was running an old (2014) Mac Mini. However, from surfing various forums I see people reporting audio stuttering on M1 and M2 macs. Bottom line is that for me, the aggregate device solution was inadequate.

With a PC using the RME ADI-2/4 Pro SE, the Dirac Live Processor can be configured for multi-channel once you've installed RME's ASIO Madiface driver. I needed to set the buffer size to 2048 or 4096 to prevent audio skips. I am using a (cheap but fast Ryzen 5600U) mini PC. I had to insert a Topping HS02 to prevent HF usb audio "hash" bleeding through to the speakers. Like I said (above), the hassle-factor increases once you go with a PC. For me, it's worth it because I enjoy the tinkering. Finally, the sound with DLBC vs Dirac alone was, for me, a significant improvement. I'd been using Multi-Sub Optimizer previously.

I use DLBC for 5.1 Netflix played through its plugin for JRiver MC 30. My Windows 11 PC is a Mele Quieter 3 feeding an Octo DAC 8 Pro. No problem whatsoever with skips, etc, no need to play with the buffer size. It works perfectly.

 

[jhaider]

This looks like the most active thread on DLBC so I thought I would ask here. Does anyone know of a 2-channel integrated or preamp that offers DLBC now or coming in the near future?…

Also curious if DLBC would be a big step up in performance in a 2.2 setup vs the standard Direct Live offered in the NAD and others.

To question 1, no. Modern 2-channel hifi gear seems to be an oxymoron, with apologies to Lyngdorf and ??? who are attempting it. So unless the little Lyngdorf meets your needs, you’re better off with “home theater” gear. Yes, you’re paying for licenses you don’t care about (Dolby, DTS and so on) and wasting a lot of circuitry for unused channels, but right now that seems to be the only non-Lyngdorf way to build a 2-channel system with good automated room correction.

To question 2, yes.

 

[theREALdotnet]

I had problems with mult-channel USB DACs on a Mac. I tried configuring as an aggregate device and enabling drift compensation, but in the very best case, I'd still occasional stutters in the audio feed at least once every few minutes or so. I was running an old (2014) Mac Mini. However, from surfing various forums I see people reporting audio stuttering on M1 and M2 macs. Bottom line is that for me, the aggregate device solution was inadequate.

Hm, I can’t say I ever experienced stuttering on the M1 Mac mini when using the aggregate audio device. Was your system memory starved?

 

[JLGF1]

This looks like the most active thread on DLBC so I thought I would ask here. Does anyone know of a 2-channel integrated or preamp that offers DLBC now or coming in the near future?

Audio Control Maestro X7 (more than 2-channel)

 

[Ricwa]

Hm, I can’t say I ever experienced stuttering on the M1 Mac mini when using the aggregate audio device. Was your system memory starved?

No, 16gm of RAM running only Roon and Dirac stand-alone processor, USB sample rate set to 96k. But as I said, mine was a vintage 2014 Mac mini.

 

[dlaloum]

Audio Control Maestro X7 (more than 2-channel)

Both the Denon and Onkyo families of AVR's have AVR's that can act as excellent preamps for stereo - with a bonus of additional channels should you want them.

The Onkyo family provide a particularly economical path to Dirac, and what attracted me to Dirac was hearing stereo at a number of shows on Dirac corrected systems.

The Onkyo products with Dirac really start out with the Integra DRX 3.4 (I exclude the Onkyo NR7100 and Pioneer LX305, for lack of pre-out's) - the built in integrated amps on these three are fine for "easy to drive" 8 ohm speakers and provide heaps of power (100W) for such speakers - but are lacking in current capabilities, and therefore behave poorly when paired with speakers with high phase angles or low impedances (anything that is 4 ohm nominal should be approached with caution) - but I run my Integra 3.4 into my difficult speakers using it as a preamp, and the results are excellent.

Going up the range to the RZ50 / 5.4 / LX505 provides a bit more power, and 2 more processor channels - with the same weakness in terms of handling low impedance speakers. The Denon/Marantz mid models X3800 / X4800 are very similar, albeit more expensive... (and have some additional features).

The next step up is the RZ70 / 8.4/ LX805 - now you start to get robust, high current power supply (although that is a guess.... pending actual technical reviews and tests).

Beyond that are more AVR's/AVP's with solid amps but that is definitely the pricey end of the market - depends on your budget.

 

[Geertidow]

Hard to find this anywhere. But is DLBC a logical choice for a 2.1 setup in a room where you I can position freely?
I'm strongly doubting between minidsp flex or pc + multichannel dac + dlbc but after extensive reading. Any good advice?

The sub already performs well using the sub crawl method, but maybe maybe maybe I'll add 1 sub one day (never more, only music on that system).

 

[dziemian]

Hard to find this anywhere. But is DLBC a logical choice for a 2.1 setup in a room where you I can position freely?
I'm strongly doubting between minidsp flex or pc + multichannel dac + dlbc but after extensive reading. Any good advice?

The sub already performs well using the sub crawl method, but maybe maybe maybe I'll add 1 sub one day (never more, only music on that system).

With pc, multichannel dac and jriver you can easily achive what minidsp flex offers. Plus dlbc. It doesnt worka the other way around. 8n jriver you can even use minidsp biquad filter.

 

[Geertidow]

With pc, multichannel dac and jriver you can easily achive what minidsp flex offers. Plus dlbc. It doesnt worka the other way around. 8n jriver you can even use minidsp biquad filter.

I'm kind of hoping for NAD to release DLBC for the NAD C658.
No hassle, all the fun (and yes the sinad isnt perfect but I like the product, owned it for years).

 

[jhaider]

Hard to find this anywhere. But is DLBC a logical choice for a 2.1 setup in a room where you I can position freely?
I'm strongly doubting between minidsp flex or pc + multichannel dac + dlbc but after extensive reading. Any good advice?

The sub already performs well using the sub crawl method, but maybe maybe maybe I'll add 1 sub one day (never more, only music on that system).

The benefit DLBC will currently offer you is automated mains/sub crossover blending. If you’re happy that may not be a huge benefit. The potential future benefit is how easy it makes scaling up your subs. Multisubs generally offer huge improvements over any single sub, if you care about multiple seating positions.