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DDRC-24 - Dirac Live on a budget?

abdo123

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you can purchase a Dirac license directly, and also get a Dirac bass control license, but then you need a DAC with as many outputs / channels as your inputs.

I'm not sure if two stereo DACs would work. but DDRC-24 would work wonderfully for a 2.2 or a 2.1 setup.
 

abdo123

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There is just no good way to use auto-cal with subs on.

you're a little bit out of creativity buddy.

here is what i did, i changed the routing matrix so Dirac input 1 is one speaker, and Dirac 2 is the subwoofer.

I ran the Dirac calibration but only the 'center' measurement that Dirac uses to set the delays, and gain. I generated the Dirac filter, and copied the values Dirac set and placed it manually in outputs section.

repeat but Dirac 1 is the second speaker this time.

This way you have successfully integrated your subwoofer using Dirac, all you have to do is set the crossovers up to your preference. I personally don't high-pass my speakers, this way i have 4 sources of low frequency further smoothing my bass response.

Although i used 11 measurements (wide imaging setting) the end results gave me a very very smooth bass response in my 'center' location.

index.php
 

eddantes

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you're a little bit out of creativity buddy.

here is what i did, i changed the routing matrix so Dirac input 1 is one speaker, and Dirac 2 is the subwoofer.

I ran the Dirac calibration but only the 'center' measurement that Dirac uses to set the delays, and gain. I generated the Dirac filter, and copied the values Dirac set and placed it manually in outputs section.

repeat but Dirac 1 is the second speaker this time.

This way you have successfully integrated your subwoofer using Dirac, all you have to do is set the crossovers up to your preference. I personally don't high-pass my speakers, this way i have 4 sources of low frequency further smoothing my bass response.

Although i used 11 measurements (wide imaging setting) the end results gave me a very very smooth bass response in my 'center' location.

index.php
Yep - this is how I'd imagined I would do it... except...

I thought, I'd X-over my subs first, then pass all four through to Dirac for auto-adjustment. This way one can high-pass or not as one wishes and still allow for Dirac to do it's magic.
 

abdo123

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Yep - this is how I'd imagined I would do it... except...

I thought, I'd X-over my subs first, then pass all four through to Dirac for auto-adjustment. This way one can high-pass or not as one wishes and still allow for Dirac to do it's magic.

it doesn’t matter when you set the crossover, as long as you do that little trick and get Dirac to set the delays for your subwoofer.
 

GimeDsp

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you're a little bit out of creativity buddy.

here is what i did, i changed the routing matrix so Dirac input 1 is one speaker, and Dirac 2 is the subwoofer.

I ran the Dirac calibration but only the 'center' measurement that Dirac uses to set the delays, and gain. I generated the Dirac filter, and copied the values Dirac set and placed it manually in outputs section.

repeat but Dirac 1 is the second speaker this time.

This way you have successfully integrated your subwoofer using Dirac, all you have to do is set the crossovers up to your preference. I personally don't high-pass my speakers, this way i have 4 sources of low frequency further smoothing my bass response.

Although i used 11 measurements (wide imaging setting) the end results gave me a very very smooth bass response in my 'center' location.

index.php
I believe Dirac assumes Dirac 1 and 2 are left and right, or sub1 and sub 2, but not t mix, as they set a delay on the input that doesn't seem to be able to be changed.

If this is the case, and it seems it is, may also assume other things based on this fact.
This means that input delay that can't be changed on input is set based on measurement NOT on deployed filter.
For this reason most likely will need to offset this correctly in the output section delay.


And the ddrc-24 only has 2 inputs, so you can not "deploy" filters to all 4 outputs separately, you get 2, inputs to deploy unique filters to.

I was not aware you can export raw filter data from dirac, if you can then what will give you decent SINGLE driver FR but that by no means replaces integrating a sub or subs with 2 speakers in a stereo playback system.

THe L+R+Sub summation is almost always NOT the same as L+sub and R+sub combined.
This is because of asymmetrical room issues such as doors/windows/wall material not to mention location.

If you can export filter data from dirac that doesn't replace measuring the summed response.

Can you export the actual filter info from dirac? or can you just deploy the "hidden data
 
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abdo123

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I believe Dirac assumes Dirac 1 and 2 are left and right, as they set a delay on the input that doesn't seem to be able to be changed.

If this is the case, and it seems it is, may also assume other things based on this fact.
This means that input delay that can't be changed on input is set based on measurement NOT on deployed filter.
For this reason most likely will need to offset this correctly in the output section delay.


And the ddrc-24 only has 2 inputs, so you can not "deploy" filters to all 4 outputs separately, you get 2, inputs to deploy unique filters to.

I was not aware you can export raw filter data from dirac, if you can then what will give you decent SINGLE driver FR but that by no means replaces integrating a sub or subs with 2 speakers in a stereo playback system.

THe L+R+Sub summation is almost always NOT the same as L+sub and R+sub combined.
This is because of asymmetrical room issues such as doors/windows/wall material not to mention location.

If you can export filter data from dirac that doesn't replace measuring the summed response.

Can you export the actual filter info from dirac? or can you just deploy the "hidden data

Hey man, you're over thinking it, I just copy the delays and gains from here

1630443230786.png

and put it here

1630443276657.png


This way Dirac sets the delays and gains individually for each of my outputs.

First Dirac calibration is L and Sub, copy delay and put on L.
Second calibration is R and sub, copy delay and put on R.
The third and final dirac calibration is L+Sub and R+Sub.

except that i did four calibrations because i have two subs.
 

GimeDsp

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Hey man, you're over thinking it, I just copy the delays and gains from here

View attachment 150776
and put it here

View attachment 150777

This way Dirac sets the delays and gains individually for each of my outputs.

First Dirac calibration is L and Sub, copy delay and put on L.
Second calibration is R and sub, copy delay and put on R.
The third and final dirac calibration is L+Sub and R+Sub.

except that i did four calibrations because i have two subs.

I am guilty of overthinking things. but when dealing with systems it's overlooking littles things that creates issues.
I just set up my old desktop set up and am going to see the difference in low end output from 2 different methods

PS, with DSP routing output 3(checked 1 and 1) I got output on Dirac to it. So you could plug in output 1, 2, 3 and should get the same results.

It also seems Dirac has more issues auto-correcting nearfield vs further away.
 

abdo123

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I am guilty of overthinking things. but when dealing with systems it's overlooking littles things that creates issues.
I just set up my old desktop set up and am going to see the difference in low end output from 2 different methods

PS, with DSP routing output 3(checked 1 and 1) I got output on Dirac to it. So you could plug in output 1, 2, 3 and should get the same results.

It also seems Dirac has more issues auto-correcting nearfield vs further away.

I hope you find my method very satisfying. For the ‘alignment’ calibrations you only need the center measurements.

if it’s still unclear in anyway let me know.
 

Lawyrup843

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you're a little bit out of creativity buddy.

here is what i did, i changed the routing matrix so Dirac input 1 is one speaker, and Dirac 2 is the subwoofer.

I ran the Dirac calibration but only the 'center' measurement that Dirac uses to set the delays, and gain. I generated the Dirac filter, and copied the values Dirac set and placed it manually in outputs section.

repeat but Dirac 1 is the second speaker this time.

This way you have successfully integrated your subwoofer using Dirac, all you have to do is set the crossovers up to your preference. I personally don't high-pass my speakers, this way i have 4 sources of low frequency further smoothing my bass response.

Although i used 11 measurements (wide imaging setting) the end results gave me a very very smooth bass response in my 'center' location.

index.php
This is a great idea! I just want to confirm your process so I can try it.

‘No HPF on mains.
Run MLP with dirac1=left speaker & dirac2=sub
Then run all other (10 positions) with Dirac1=right speaker & dirac2=sub?
or am I running all Remaining positions normally?
i Can pm you if you don’t mind breaking it down.

thanks
 

abdo123

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This is a great idea! I just want to confirm your process so I can try it.

‘No HPF on mains.
Run MLP with dirac1=left speaker & dirac2=sub
Then run all other (10 positions) with Dirac1=right speaker & dirac2=sub?
or am I running all Remaining positions normally?
i Can pm you if you don’t mind breaking it down.

thanks

Okay, I'm going to describe in full detail what i did, and you can adjust to make it work for your setup.

I have a 2.2 setup, Output 1 is Left, Output 2 is Right, Output 3 is first sub, output 4 is second sub.

I first began by setting Dirac 1 to output 3 / first sub, and Dirac 2 to output 4 / second sub.
1630448211226.png


I ran the (first of many) Dirac calibration, i only measured the centre position that Dirac uses to set the gains and delays, i hit next, i hit generate filter (target curve doesn't matter, we only want the delays).

After the 'calibration' is over, i go back to the miniDSP interface and check the delays and gains here that were generated by Dirac.

index.php


Then I copy whatever delays Dirac generated to their respective output in the outputs tab

1630448911932.png


my subwoofers were already gain matched before i started, so i did not use the gain adjustments Dirac suggested, as SPL matching is not necessary when you have the two subwoofers gain matched.

gain matching your subwoofers means that if both of your subwoofers would be in identical locations in the room, they would produce the same output / frequency response. SPL matching is matching the average SPL of two subwoofers in two different locations in the room, it's less effective and it's what a digital processor can do.

So now we go to our next step, aligning the left speaker to the 'subwoofer' which is the summation of first subwoofer and second subwoofer.

so after you have manually typed in the delay from the first calibration into its respective output in the outputs tab in the MiniDSP software, we go ahead for calibration number two

Dirac 1 is left speaker / output 1
Dirac 2 is 'subwoofer' / output 3 + output 4

1630448359142.png


Similarily, we take the delay that Dirac came up with and we put it in its respective output in the outputs tab in the MiniDSP software.

Again we do a third calibration,

Dirac 1 is right speaker / output 2
Dirac 2 is 'subwoofer' / output 3 + output 4

1630448434928.png


After we copy the third and final delay into the outputs, this is a good time for crossovers, if your speakers have meaningful low frequency output above 40Hz, and you would like to keep them running to have more low frequency sources and further smoothen your bass response then there is no need for a crossover.

Now we run THE Dirac calibration, the final and last calibration with the following routing matrix.

1630448684912.png


and voila! subwoofer integration complete!

I will probably make a more comprehensive thread in the future about the optimal target curve and stuff for Dirac, I experimented A LOT and i feel like a lot of people can make use of that as well.
 

Colonel7

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Okay, I'm going to describe in full detail what i did, and you can adjust to make it work for your setup.

I have a 2.2 setup, Output 1 is Left, Output 2 is Right, Output 3 is first sub, output 4 is second sub.

I first began by setting Dirac 1 to output 3 / first sub, and Dirac 2 to output 4 / second sub.
View attachment 150791

I ran the (first of many) Dirac calibration, i only measured the centre position that Dirac uses to set the gains and delays, i hit next, i hit generate filter (target curve doesn't matter, we only want the delays).

After the 'calibration' is over, i go back to the miniDSP interface and check the delays and gains here that were generated by Dirac.

index.php


Then I copy whatever delays Dirac generated to their respective output in the outputs tab

View attachment 150809

my subwoofers were already gain matched before i started, so i did not use the gain adjustments Dirac suggested, as SPL matching is not necessary when you have the two subwoofers gain matched.

gain matching your subwoofers means that if both of your subwoofers would be in identical locations in the room, they would produce the same output / frequency response. SPL matching is matching the average SPL of two subwoofers in two different locations in the room, it's less effective and it's what a digital processor can do.

So now we go to our next step, aligning the left speaker to the 'subwoofer' which is the summation of first subwoofer and second subwoofer.

so after you have manually typed in the delay from the first calibration into its respective output in the outputs tab in the MiniDSP software, we go ahead for calibration number two

Dirac 1 is left speaker / output 1
Dirac 2 is 'subwoofer' / output 3 + output 4

View attachment 150792

Similarily, we take the delay that Dirac came up with and we put it in its respective output in the outputs tab in the MiniDSP software.

Again we do a third calibration,

Dirac 1 is right speaker / output 2
Dirac 2 is 'subwoofer' / output 3 + output 4

View attachment 150793

After we copy the third and final delay into the outputs, this is a good time for crossovers, if your speakers have meaningful low frequency output above 40Hz, and you would like to keep them running to have more low frequency sources and further smoothen your bass response then there is no need for a crossover.

Now we run THE Dirac calibration, the final and last calibration with the following routing matrix.

View attachment 150794

and voila! subwoofer integration complete!

I will probably make a more comprehensive thread in the future about the optimal target curve and stuff for Dirac, I experimented A LOT and i feel like a lot of people can make use of that as well.
Yep, this is worth it's own thread so people can find it.
 

phoenixdogfan

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Dirac is global, its the 2 inputs that is before the rest of the DSP.

I am not sure is the output channels 3/4 will run during auto cal. I will hook mine up and check
In a 2 x 4 crossover set up with high and low pass, Dirac treats the output as two stereo channels. When the sweep is run it will run through the each distinct stereo starting with the lowest frequencies which the subs will play until it crosses over to main speaker, but, no, it won't play the subs as separate channels. For that, you need multichannel Dirac and a processor which has distinct LFE ".1, .2, etc" sub channels, and that's not what a miniDSP 2 x 4 HD does.
 

abdo123

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but, no, it won't play the subs as separate channels.

if you're doing crossovers then there is really zero value in having that feature honestly.

it's only useful to people who don't do crossovers. and have 3-4 sources of low frequency.

but even then there are many ways to go around that like i demonstrated.
 

holbob

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yes to all of these questions



I have my own 'unique' protocol for subwoofer integration with the DDRC-24, if you decide to buy it, i can share it with you. it's super super easy.

the only negative thing is that without some extra fiddling you would have to use the DAC of the MiniDSP and retire your DAC.

However, the MiniDSP provides Stereo USB output and input, so you can theoretically take the Dirac corrected digital usb output and route it to the Topping DAC.

I would be interested in your protocol to see if it matches mine. I have basically the same system as the op, and I correct to 130hz with Dirac and it works very well.
 

phoenixdogfan

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you can purchase a Dirac license directly, and also get a Dirac bass control license, but then you need a DAC with as many outputs / channels as your inputs.

I'm not sure if two stereo DACs would work. but DDRC-24 would work wonderfully for a 2.2 or a 2.1 setup.
Dirac is selling the bass control license? For PCs and workstations?
 

phoenixdogfan

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you really need just a Dirac account, which you can easily have by signing up in their website for free.

you also must have the DDRC-24 frimware installed on the 2*4HD, that's the tricky part, people only have access to the 'upgrade' if they went and validated their upgrade purchase with MiniDSP. you don't really deal with Dirac at all.
In any case you have to make sure the gatekeeper (miniDSP in this case) will honor a transfer or rights and not require a repurchase.
 
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