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DDRC-24 - Dirac Live on a budget?

MaxRockbin

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yeah they are, but the prices are obviously targeting elaborate studios.
I don't think the bass management plug-in is that expensive. MiniDSP doesn't support bass management on most of their hardware, but on their website they do list this bass management plugin for sale for the DDRC-88 for $99.
I have to say though, their language is a little confusing. Is this the actual Dirac Bass management plugin or is MiniDSP selling their own plugin that lets you sort of kludge bass management into the regular Dirac software?

The DDRC-88BM plug-in extends the capabilities of the DDRC-88A/88D multichannel Dirac Live® processor. 100% compatible with all DDRC-88A/88D units in the field, the DDRC-88BM adds comprehensive fine-grained bass management and crossover capabilities. The input signals are low-pass filtered and summed to generate the subwoofer signal; a matrix mixer routes or mixes these channels for the Dirac Live® algorithm, which in turn has its outputs routed or mixed to the output channels, where additional high/low pass and parametric filtering takes place. In addition to improved bass management for conventional home theater signal paths, the DDRC-88BM allows innovative solutions like multi-subwoofer control and combined DRC/active loudspeaker setups.
 

abdo123

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I don't think the bass management plug-in is that expensive. MiniDSP doesn't support bass management on most of their hardware, but on their website they do list this bass management plugin for sale for the DDRC-88 for $99.
I have to say though, their language is a little confusing. Is this the actual Dirac Bass management plugin or is MiniDSP selling their own plugin that lets you sort of kludge bass management into the regular Dirac software?

The DDRC-88BM plug-in extends the capabilities of the DDRC-88A/88D multichannel Dirac Live® processor. 100% compatible with all DDRC-88A/88D units in the field, the DDRC-88BM adds comprehensive fine-grained bass management and crossover capabilities. The input signals are low-pass filtered and summed to generate the subwoofer signal; a matrix mixer routes or mixes these channels for the Dirac Live® algorithm, which in turn has its outputs routed or mixed to the output channels, where additional high/low pass and parametric filtering takes place. In addition to improved bass management for conventional home theater signal paths, the DDRC-88BM allows innovative solutions like multi-subwoofer control and combined DRC/active loudspeaker setups.

From what I've collected, it's just MiniDSP. Dirac live's 'bass management' is called Dirac live bass control.

What the 88-BM does is just redirecting all the low frequency information below your crossover frequency from the 7 channels, into the .1 channel. it's an incredible feature, if you don't have an AVR.
 

abdo123

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Would you explain that section a little more?
when you plug your MiniDSP into your PC via USB, you will notice there are stereo outputs (speaker) and 4 channel inputs (line-in).

The inputs are basically the MiniDSP outputs, I usually use this feature to record my LPs.

So with a little bit of tinkering on the PC one might take these 4 inputs and route them towards a USB 4-channel DAC or more to get higher SINAD.
 

GimeDsp

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when you plug your MiniDSP into your PC via USB, you will notice there are stereo outputs (speaker) and 4 channel inputs (line-in).

The inputs are basically the MiniDSP outputs, I usually use this feature to record my LPs.

So with a little bit of tinkering on the PC one might take these 4 inputs and route them towards a USB 4-channel DAC or more to get higher SINAD.
I read through a VERY long post, and from what they found out is that the inputs are not available unless you have major programming skills and mess with all kinds of things.

If you are aware of any other way then please link to the process, thanks.
 

abdo123

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I read through a VERY long post, and from what they found out is that the inputs are not available unless you have major programming skills and mess with all kinds of things.

If you are aware of any other way then please link to the process, thanks.

the inputs are available, and you can record them with something like audacity directly.

the tricky part is getting that input into a high SINAD output via software.
 

GimeDsp

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I just sold my ddrc-24 this last week.
Many people are happy with miniDSP 2x4 platform, I just wasn't.
 

holbob

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I just sold my ddrc-24 this last week.
Many people are happy with miniDSP 2x4 platform, I just wasn't.
What are you replacing it with?
 

Snarfie

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Did you ever consider for free mathaudio room eq incombination with Foobar. If you get good results you can consider to buy the system wide version. Mathaudio.com
 
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GimeDsp

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What are you replacing it with?
Not sure yet, I am of the belief now the FIR filters should only be used on the speaker DSP tuning side where nothing ever changes.

I know Dirac claims to have algorithms that take all things into consideration but I have never got a natural sound with it, even though it can give a "flat" response it sounds very unnatural to me. But that's just me, I am a subjective listener that goes to studios and takes notes on issues with the sound regarding tonal, spatial, and time domain aspects and works with the system integrators.

I have luckily re -arranged my room and found a spot that doesn't need DSP
 
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Willem

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Alternatives have been mentioned, and I have two rather basic options that I personally like:
1 Measure response in REW, then create a correction curve in REW and apply it to the Equalizer Apo. This works as long as you do not have other sources beyond a PC.
2 The Antimode 8033 automatic dsp room eq for the subwoofer(s) only. I use this in my main system and I like it. It is a very basic option for those who want to cure the worst problems for the least effort, so it is cheap and easy to implement. It will work with multiple subs.
 

GimeDsp

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Alternatives have been mentioned, and I have two rather basic options that I personally like:
1 Measure response in REW, then create a correction curve in REW and apply it to the Equalizer Apo. This works as long as you do not have other sources beyond a PC.
2 The Antimode 8033 automatic dsp room eq for the subwoofer(s) only. I use this in my main system and I like it. It is a very basic option for those who want to cure the worst problems for the least effort, so it is cheap and easy to implement. It will work with multiple subs.I
I tried eq APO for hours and couldn't get it to work,

Previously it worked sometimes but was intermittent.
I am glad some people can get eqAPO to work but I was not one of them.
 

Lawyrup843

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Mini dsp is one of those things that is very easy to get frustrated with. IMO. If you don’t use it for subs Or Dirac then the best use is for BEQ with movies. Honestly using the minidsp for BEQ is worth its asking price just for movies. And it’s free!
 

GimeDsp

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After selling my ddrc-24 and trying EQ apo I know wish I had it back.

My next DSP will be a mini DSP, higher end model but without dirac. For consumer stuff miniDSP does some really great things.
 

abdo123

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After selling my ddrc-24 and trying EQ apo I know wish I had it back.

My next DSP will be a mini DSP, higher end model but without dirac. For consumer stuff miniDSP does some really great things.

Sorry but you mentioned earlier that you’re a system integrator. Don’t you guys have even more powerful stuff than MiniDSP?

As far as I know it’s impossible to set an array without it anyway.
 

GimeDsp

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Sorry but you mentioned earlier that you’re a system integrator. Don’t you guys have even more powerful stuff than MiniDSP?

As far as I know it’s impossible to set an array without it anyway.
I sold all my pro gear a few years back.

No need for gear for system integration when it's all spc'd our.

No need for gear now since live shows have been on hold mostly.
 
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bbizzle

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Okay, I'm going to describe in full detail what i did, and you can adjust to make it work for your setup.

I have a 2.2 setup, Output 1 is Left, Output 2 is Right, Output 3 is first sub, output 4 is second sub.

I first began by setting Dirac 1 to output 3 / first sub, and Dirac 2 to output 4 / second sub.
View attachment 150791

I ran the (first of many) Dirac calibration, i only measured the centre position that Dirac uses to set the gains and delays, i hit next, i hit generate filter (target curve doesn't matter, we only want the delays).

After the 'calibration' is over, i go back to the miniDSP interface and check the delays and gains here that were generated by Dirac.

index.php


Then I copy whatever delays Dirac generated to their respective output in the outputs tab

View attachment 150809

my subwoofers were already gain matched before i started, so i did not use the gain adjustments Dirac suggested, as SPL matching is not necessary when you have the two subwoofers gain matched.

gain matching your subwoofers means that if both of your subwoofers would be in identical locations in the room, they would produce the same output / frequency response. SPL matching is matching the average SPL of two subwoofers in two different locations in the room, it's less effective and it's what a digital processor can do.

So now we go to our next step, aligning the left speaker to the 'subwoofer' which is the summation of first subwoofer and second subwoofer.

so after you have manually typed in the delay from the first calibration into its respective output in the outputs tab in the MiniDSP software, we go ahead for calibration number two

Dirac 1 is left speaker / output 1
Dirac 2 is 'subwoofer' / output 3 + output 4

View attachment 150792

Similarily, we take the delay that Dirac came up with and we put it in its respective output in the outputs tab in the MiniDSP software.

Again we do a third calibration,

Dirac 1 is right speaker / output 2
Dirac 2 is 'subwoofer' / output 3 + output 4

View attachment 150793

After we copy the third and final delay into the outputs, this is a good time for crossovers, if your speakers have meaningful low frequency output above 40Hz, and you would like to keep them running to have more low frequency sources and further smoothen your bass response then there is no need for a crossover.

Now we run THE Dirac calibration, the final and last calibration with the following routing matrix.

View attachment 150794

and voila! subwoofer integration complete!

I will probably make a more comprehensive thread in the future about the optimal target curve and stuff for Dirac, I experimented A LOT and i feel like a lot of people can make use of that as well.
Thank you so much for this walkthrough. Simple, logical, and easy to follow! Really appreciate it!
 
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If all you have are two subs, the DDRC 24 will do all that. The miniDSP software handles the crossover (both high and low pass), does 10 band parametric eq, and when that's all done you run a Dirac Live measurement and implement the correction curve to correct everything. If you are running it as a stereo crossover, it will be limited to two subwoofers. If all you wanted it for was to manage multiple subs, you could just run the low end into the DDRC (via analog in) and use the matrix to create four controllable sub channels with dac and eq. Would need a crossover for high and low pass before the DDRC in the chain, and you could still run Dirac, but corrections would be limited to low frequencies (which is how a lot of people use Dirac anyway).
Hello regarding the comment above "If all you wanted it for was to manage multiple subs, you could just run the low end into the DDRC (via analog in) and use the matrix to create four controllable sub channels with dac and eq."
If using Dirac which routing scheme would you suggest? (see images) The reason I ask is because Dirac wants to level calibrate in both channels. However the monaural combination seems to defeat the time domain concept of Dirac.
 

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