gonzoucab
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Hard to tell without testing. but you are limiting the system to 96Khz, whats your goal with your audio setup?
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dbx DriveRack VENU360 Review (audio processor)
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
Hard to tell without testing. but you are limiting the system to 96Khz, whats your goal with your audio setup?
mhardy6647
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From a SINAD perspective these specs are...not exceptional. That 0.005% THD spec is -86 dB and that does not include the noise component.
Although I must say I find this thread interesting in that many people have been enjoying the venu360 with a SINAD of somewhere between 84 dB (Amir's measurement) and 92 dB (dbx spec). It think this really points to the fact that in general electronics have levels of distortion and noise that are so low that even poorly measuring ones are OK in most use cases.
Michael
Most definitely. I set up the Venu360 briefly in my system, and thought it only improved the sound (due to EQ), with no negative artifacts. Now it's waiting in the attic between two setups. Generally I think sinad numbers of about 80 should be inaudible/transparent for most real-world setups. Some types of noise and distortion are worse than others, though. Hiss and general noise is something I try to avoid as much as possible, for example.
In general I find that obsessing over electronics is a constant fight against the rational part of me. I know that almost all modern audio electronics is transparent to the human ear, as long as they don't consciously try to provide it with a sound signature. I nevertheless keep reading measurements and I'd rather have well-measuring than badly measuring gear. None of us are free from cognitive biases, I guess
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Exactly! I think the Venu is an excellent sounding device. Its versatile in and output adjustment settings are helpful to avoid too much hiss. Plus the fact that almost any better and I mean really better device costs double, tripple of the Venu 360.
Also: My testing is strictly focused on the DAC functionality from the point of view of audiophile use. I am not qualified to evaluate the unit functionality for its intended purpose (live sound, etc.).
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Yes, the review has limited scope, but in line with what this site represents (not trying to puts words in Amir's mouth, just my opinion based off the many reviews I've read here).
I think I was agreeing with you
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Yes, sorry. Just rewording/reiterating for newer readers.
Just prior to starting my multichannel audio project, during late 2019 to January 2020, I have intensively considered and investigated the possible use of two of DBX DriverRack VENU360 to establish stereo 5-way 10-channel multichannel multi-driver multi-amplifier audio system.
My happy "discovery" of the combination of software crossover EKIO and OKTO DAC8PRO in February 2020, however, fortunately suggested me not to use DBX DriverRack VENU360 in my project.
Now reading amirm's review here, I feel much relief that I did not use DBX DriverRack VENU360 at least in my unique project; I could successfully established my stereo 5-way 10-channel multichannel multi-driver multi-amplifier audio system with software crossover EKIO in Windows PC digitally processing all the signals in 192 kHz 24 bit into DAC8PRO using all ASIO routing from JRiver (or Roon).
My happy "discovery" of the combination of software crossover EKIO and OKTO DAC8PRO in February 2020, however, fortunately suggested me not to use DBX DriverRack VENU360 in my project.
Now reading amirm's review here, I feel much relief that I did not use DBX DriverRack VENU360 at least in my unique project; I could successfully established my stereo 5-way 10-channel multichannel multi-driver multi-amplifier audio system with software crossover EKIO in Windows PC digitally processing all the signals in 192 kHz 24 bit into DAC8PRO using all ASIO routing from JRiver (or Roon).
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Thats such a valid point.
For me, the surprise came not because of divergence from published specs but how much lower it was compared to @pkane's measurements of the step down PA2. I was quite sure there would be similar over-delivery on specs by dbx for this model
And then of course there has been (over the years) so much negativity regarding behringer DCX/DEQ DA stages including many threads on various online fora on how to mitigate that (and many online businesses selling mods). Considering there was no negative buzz around the Venu, I thought it would be streets ahead. But, unless I've been reading something wrong, they are fairly equivalent out of the box.
D
Deleted member 2944
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I think we still have to consider the possibility the measured results are irrelevant because of improper setup and/or malfunction.
If a person reviewing a product runs into something unexpected there's nothing wrong with pausing the effort to ask for help to sort out the issue. This is something John Atkinson (to his credit) has done multiple times.
This is another ASR test report that leaves me raising my eyebrow and rolling my eyes. He's clearly placed himself under time pressure on all these reviews now.......and it's showing.
Dave.
Or, there are any number of things that could be one off issues. Improper setup? I tend to trust Amir to know how to test a DAC at this point. What are some of the other excuses heard in the subsequent posts? The owner fiddled with the configurations and then sent it off to be tested. The unit was dropped shipped direct to Amir, so again that's not relevant. But was it a counterfeit Venu 360? Possible, but I still trust Amir to be able to tell the difference. So what else is there? If it is not lackluster by design like some insist, it sort of comes down to maybe a QC issue. If they are having difficulties with production, that's understandable, but to what end are we consumers supposed to put up with that? And how would WE know that we got a lemon? If we are going to be objective audiophiles, and not fully trust just our ears, then we have to trust the specs, and for that, we need ASR.
To think I was coming close at times to buying one of these with the knowledge that it has GOOD if not great specs! Probably one of the reasons I had held off in the past few years is that for a piece of equipment costing upwards of a grand, I really wanted to see a review on ASR. Then I ended up going a different, more affordable direction and now that I have my science based Venu review, I'm good with the fact that I am not now trying to unload a used Venu, along with probably several others who, after reading this review are thinking along the same lines..
We cannot sing the praises of good reviews like Amir gives us on a daily basis, but only when our favorite piece of equipment tests well. It was a good review of the performance of the DAC portion, and if we don't like the answers, then maybe we need to learn how to test for ourselves.. Regardless, enough griping already!
OP
- Thread Starter
- #114
There is no malfunction here. Don't speculate and spread FUD with no basis. This is a malfunction in a device I measured yesterday for another member (which is being sent back without a review):
See how easy it is to tell when the device is broken? Clear sign of clipping in one channel's positive rail indicating positive power rail being bad. I do not under any circumstances review a product I consider to be broken. And after literally repairing and now testing thousands of products, I know what a device is broken, and what is not.
I was speaking to a major manufacturer on measurements of their product. He was aghast when I told him some people are thinking their box is broken and that is the reason for less than optimal performance.
Can it happen? Yes. But what are the odds in a stereo device where the issue would show up in both channels? Very, very low.
Considerable effort was made to configure this device properly to measure its DAC. I sent my son to fully read the manual and do what he could to get the device to output proper signal. I then worked with him with the device live and experimented a bunch with output levels and such to get the best output performance. This is 5X the effort I put in to test any desktop DAC for example.
Now, it is possible there is some hidden configuration issue here still. What I do know is that these results are typical of Pro products of this type and are not optimized at desktop/audiophile levels. A member also post about design modifications in later models which have reduced performance.
Net, net, you are completely out of line. You have no data to back your accusations. The only thing motivating you to write such nonsense is because we are testing yet another product you like which objectively doesn't show good performance. It is all emotion speaking and zero fact. Learn to be like the owner who was thankful and appreciative of the testing he got. Or else you are going to be in misery. In which case I highly suggestion to resign yourself from such FUD and go read something else. This is not a home for you if you all want is good news for what you own.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #115
All of which was done. Same standardized test was done on this device that I run on all of its competitors. The gear itself was analyzed and every effort put in to make it a pass through to produce the best performance it could. Multiple output level settings for example were tested and only the best figure was used. Out of box channel 1 worked but channel 2 produced nothing. It took a lot of efforts to configure it to the same output as channel 1.It seems that buying test gear is not enough. One has to have an understanding of the test gear, the gear to be tested and its applications, and appropriate test protocols with validating checks.
Who would have thought?
Test lab 101.
Company specs like all the other manufacturers are vague and useless with regards to extensive tests we run. It is not like they have the same tests so we can validate ours against them. You need to direct your insults at them for selling a Pro product but insult the users by producing a few text figures which who knows what test conditions.
You have no knowledge of this device, the testing system, or whether the data is right or wrong. Despite all that, you think you are entitled to keep complaining. You have something constructive to share, let's see it. Otherwise, we don't need people sitting on the sidelines thinking their only job is to throw rocks when they don't even understand the subject matter.
D
Deleted member 2944
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Again with the "emotional" rationalization?? My goodness.
I don't like (or dislike) this particular unit. I don't own one, nor have I even seen or used one. I'm simply curious about it because I do have an interest in active speakers and active crossover devices.
If we're talking about false accusations and emotion, I suggest to look in the mirror.
You need to do a better job with your reviews, and your attitude.
Dave.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #117
I brought data to this conversation in the form of the review and measurements. If you had contributed 1% of that, I would have let you be -- complaints and all. But you didn't. You are just complaining. And complaining. That adds nothing to the conversation and instead, helps to produce doubt with no foundation about the work we do here. So don't equate yourself to me or other members who bring some knowledge to threads. Or ask proper question.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #118
This is true. The issue at hand and why we measure is that all else being equal, you might as well get a more performant device. Many times extra quality comes at same or even lower prices as we have seen with desktop/stereo products.
Second point is to not have expectations that because this brand is this and that, it must be great by definition.
Third would be a message to the manufacturers to not leave performance on the table. Last processor I tested from Storm for example, improved its performance fair bit with just firmware changes as a results of our testing.
ObjectAudio
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Amir,
It looks like there are some variance between VENU360 units base on their revision or production date.
As I wrote in my previous post I have two of them , older one that was measured correctly and actually very good performance from the start, and newer one that was measured bad as the unit you measured, that I succeed to fix with small mod on the DAC output.
In my previous post I posted the measurements for both of them, and comparing them to the DCX2496 and for reference the SMSL M500 to show the capabilities of the R&S UPL that I am using.
If the unit is a good one or fixed like the mod I apply they measure is excellent ,and they are really great versatile units.
It looks like there are some variance between VENU360 units base on their revision or production date.
As I wrote in my previous post I have two of them , older one that was measured correctly and actually very good performance from the start, and newer one that was measured bad as the unit you measured, that I succeed to fix with small mod on the DAC output.
In my previous post I posted the measurements for both of them, and comparing them to the DCX2496 and for reference the SMSL M500 to show the capabilities of the R&S UPL that I am using.
If the unit is a good one or fixed like the mod I apply they measure is excellent ,and they are really great versatile units.
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