dbx DriveRack VENU360 Review (audio processor)

[Neddy]

I actually have an audio interface which could work. Ok, this will be a new thing for me, but I'll have a look at the process!

I'd sure be interested in those results. I have an even older Venu (2015 I think?) but haven't cracked it open yet, and won't be able to do the tests as suggested by @ObjectAudio
I'm also fortunate in that my Venu was purchased for an earlier variant of my system, is not technically required anymore (other ways of doing it), so I will be setting up some kind of comparison (A/B might be difficult) to try to determine if the Venu is definitely polluting the OktoDACs outputs on the biamped mains.

 

[Stoutblock]

I would hope all audio discussion forums exist for one main reason, to share in the joy of audio and to help each other understand what we each have learned from our own personal audio journey. I enjoy ASR in particular because of the extreme objectivity communicated clearly on their technical tests and reviews. Being an Engineer myself I greatly appreciate knowing the data. I grow very tired of the subjective opinions shared on most other audio forums. I find ASR very refreshing.

If I had read this review prior to purchasing a Venu360 I would not have made the purchase. I have learned you can take Amir’s assessments of products “to the bank”. Why question them and take the risk of being disappointed in the performance of a product?

The problem is I bought a Venu360 a couple months back to do some tweaking of my multi-driver speaker system that requires an active multi channel crossover. The goal was to get these speakers to perform accurately in my living room listening area which has some acoustical challenges. Overall I am pleased with the product’s performance for my application. Then I read this review.

I only add my perspective to make sure others are not afraid to consider this product if they need its unique features. Knowing I was pleased with the Venu360 in my system, I decided to have my tech spend some objective time with it. My Venu360 is the latest model. This is his response:

"This unit doesn't exhibit the anomalies noted in the ASR review. It measures pretty well. I tried, but I'm not able to duplicate Amir's issue with his unit. So, he either had an improper setup and/or the unit he tested was faulty in some way.

I used the digital input for most tests. But the analog inputs look good as well.

I started by factory-defaulting the unit, selected Preset 11, selected AES input, and turned off all the crossovers. This is as close as you can get to a DAC-like setup.

The gain structure of this unit is a bit convoluted relative to other DSP platforms I have experience with. There are seven selectable output levels and four selectable input levels. These are not correctly set for non-professional use in their initial positions. If using the analog inputs, the gain structure should be changed by selecting +14dBu for all inputs and outputs. That yields unity gain and provides higher signal levels within the unit. If using the digital inputs, +14dBu is a good setting as well.

In my measurement with the output setting at +22dBu and a -15dbFS digital input, the measured output voltage is 2.06 VRMS. So right away I suspect some sort of problem with Amir's configuration since he measured 4.18VRMS. And, I don't see any trace of the "noise modulation" he noticed on the 1khz peak in his spectrum analyzer plot. There is some harmonic distortion and the associated SINAD is not spectacular, but it's not bad at all.

The outputs clip at 9.3VRMS. Plenty!

Also, this unit has considerable capabilities and testing just "DAC functionality" does not do it service."

In my 30+ years as an Engineer, I have always been one to challenge assumptions, and be open to other perspectives but in the end always honored the data. The data will set you free! It took me far. I plan on continuing to use this tool in my home audio system.

Amir, I know you are very busy but I offer to personally deliver my Venu360 as a second sample to test. I think the product is worthy of more of your expert attention?

 

[win]

Appreciate your post. Where are you seeing individual input/output settings, other than the gain available for each channel/stage?

 

[pkane]

I would hope all audio discussion forums exist for one main reason, to share in the joy of audio and to help each other understand what we each have learned from our own personal audio journey. I enjoy ASR in particular because of the extreme objectivity communicated clearly on their technical tests and reviews. Being an Engineer myself I greatly appreciate knowing the data. I grow very tired of the subjective opinions shared on most other audio forums. I find ASR very refreshing.

If I had read this review prior to purchasing a Venu360 I would not have made the purchase. I have learned you can take Amir’s assessments of products “to the bank”. Why question them and take the risk of being disappointed in the performance of a product?

The problem is I bought a Venu360 a couple months back to do some tweaking of my multi-driver speaker system that requires an active multi channel crossover. The goal was to get these speakers to perform accurately in my living room listening area which has some acoustical challenges. Overall I am pleased with the product’s performance for my application. Then I read this review.

I only add my perspective to make sure others are not afraid to consider this product if they need its unique features. Knowing I was pleased with the Venu360 in my system, I decided to have my tech spend some objective time with it. My Venu360 is the latest model. This is his response:

"This unit doesn't exhibit the anomalies noted in the ASR review. It measures pretty well. I tried, but I'm not able to duplicate Amir's issue with his unit. So, he either had an improper setup and/or the unit he tested was faulty in some way.

I used the digital input for most tests. But the analog inputs look good as well.

I started by factory-defaulting the unit, selected Preset 11, selected AES input, and turned off all the crossovers. This is as close as you can get to a DAC-like setup.

The gain structure of this unit is a bit convoluted relative to other DSP platforms I have experience with. There are seven selectable output levels and four selectable input levels. These are not correctly set for non-professional use in their initial positions. If using the analog inputs, the gain structure should be changed by selecting +14dBu for all inputs and outputs. That yields unity gain and provides higher signal levels within the unit. If using the digital inputs, +14dBu is a good setting as well.

In my measurement with the output setting at +22dBu and a -15dbFS digital input, the measured output voltage is 2.06 VRMS. So right away I suspect some sort of problem with Amir's configuration since he measured 4.18VRMS. And, I don't see any trace of the "noise modulation" he noticed on the 1khz peak in his spectrum analyzer plot. There is some harmonic distortion and the associated SINAD is not spectacular, but it's not bad at all.

The outputs clip at 9.3VRMS. Plenty!

Also, this unit has considerable capabilities and testing just "DAC functionality" does not do it service."

In my 30+ years as an Engineer, I have always been one to challenge assumptions, and be open to other perspectives but in the end always honored the data. The data will set you free! It took me far. I plan on continuing to use this tool in my home audio system.

Amir, I know you are very busy but I offer to personally deliver my Venu360 as a second sample to test. I think the product is worthy of more of your expert attention?

View attachment 126646

It's always good to have a second or third opinion But, your measurement appears to show worse THD+N by 6dB than what Amir measured (his was 0.006%), which could also be related to the Vout being half in your measurements.

The harmonic distortion looks lower, but the plot is not scaled to 0dBFS, like Amir's. If you rescale the plot, the harmonic components will also increase. The relative sizes of the harmonics look similar to me between the two measurements, with the third dominating by far. If scaled the same and measured at the same dBu, I don't think the results will be all that different. Do you?

 

[mac]

I brought data to this conversation in the form of the review and measurements. If you had contributed 1% of that, I would have let you be -- complaints and all. But you didn't. You are just complaining. And complaining. That adds nothing to the conversation and instead, helps to produce doubt with no foundation about the work we do here. So don't equate yourself to me or other members who bring some knowledge to threads. Or ask proper question.

Dave has since tested this device and his measurements show (and he concludes) that this device functions transparently as a DAC. I'm posting this link on his behalf (and without his knowledge) because he's no longer able to post on this site. Perhaps you'd like to confer with Dave to understand what he needed to do to get this device to function as a stand-alone DAC without all its signal processing enabled. If so, it's probably worthy of a retest.

 

[win]

Can you share the post text? That link requires a registration and odd registration confirmation secret to view

 

[mac]

Can you share the post text? That link requires a registration and odd registration confirmation secret to view

It was shared verbatim above.

 

[mdsimon2]

Can you share the post text? That link requires a registration and odd registration confirmation secret to view

It is the same information that was posted by @Stoutblock in post 142.

Michael

 

[dualazmak]

....
View attachment 126646

Let me have just one naive question, please.

In the graph for dbx DriveRack VENU360;

The 1k main peak looks somewhat considerably broader than that we usually find in amirm's measurement like this one for OKTO DAC8PRO;

Would the broader 1k peak for dbx DriveRack VENU360 be due to (or related to) the "Strange jitter components" associating with the 1K peak measured by amirm shown in the very first post on this thread??

Of course, I understand well that dbx DriveRack VENU360 is not a simple DAC but is the DSP processor with various functions. I am just rather curious, however, about the broadness of the 1k main peak.

 

[amirm]

Amir, I know you are very busy but I offer to personally deliver my Venu360 as a second sample to test. I think the product is worthy of more of your expert attention?

I like the kind way you put that. As noted by @pkane though, these results confirm my measurements, not dispute it. Here is summary of it:

The measurement you post:

And mine:

As you see, I am showing half as much THD+N. As I explained in the review, my son and I spent quite a bit of time getting the best numbers we could out of this device. You can see proof of it.

In your stats, THD (without noise) is shown as 0.003%. Converting this to dB becomes -90 dB. The measurement you post were at 2 volts which is too low for balanced output. 4 volts is the standard which is what I used (and what all desktop DACs produce). But I did show a sweep at lower voltages:

As you see, I am showing THD plus noise going to 89 dB which is essentially what your measurements are showing.

With this being the third measurement that points to the same results, I see no reason to testing the device again. It simply does not have competitive DAC performance.

 

[amirm]

Of course, I understand well that dbx DriveRack VENU360 is not a simple DAC but is the DSP processor with various functions. I am just rather curious, however, about the broadness of the 1k main peak.

Good observations. Broadness of the 1 kHz "skirt" indicates random clock jitter. The more complex devices get, the more chance the rest of the system bleeds into the clock causing such artifacts. Usually this problem is not extreme enough to show up in 1 kHz tone and hence the reason I run the dedicated jitter test. When it does show though, it indicates the problem is quite significant (technically -- audibly it may not still be).

 

[ObjectAudio]

Older or newer modified as I suggested VENU360 should measure like this:

And for reference the SMSL M500 measurements with the same system I am using.

So the measurements potential for the VENU360 are excellent.

 

[win]

which is it

 

[ObjectAudio]

This the old one , but the new modified one should be measured the same.

 

[bigguyca]

This the old one , but the new modified one should be measured the same.

Unfortunately we didn't get a complete set of measurements of the one tested here on ASR. Also there wasn't the usual follow-up with the manufacturer when products have poor measurements. No doubt I'm in the minority, and actually there is only one vote on this question, but I'd like to see these sorts of issues pursed instead of measurements of products provided by manufacturers for which there a numerous good alternatives, that aren't yet available for sale.

Now we can just spend time speculating. Perhaps more owners will measure their VENU360's, old and new version, and we'll get some added insight. This could have been happening along with the original test and discussions with the manufacturer.

The situation may be like Denon with the X6700H where a set of unacceptable capacitors were used for a time. Perhaps, new-new units measure better. Of course bad performance in that case was pursued with Denon and the evident root cause was learned.

Since capacitors appear to be the problem, this situation has shed light on the X6700H capacitor problems. In a too narrow mindset, and with no actual facts, I blamed the large electrolytic capacitors. PRC companies produced a horrible set of those years ago. Perhaps this was another example. It's hard to see how a bunch of what appear to be ceramics could be so screwed up or miss-specified. A good learning experience.

 

[win]

My takeaway has been arguing over testing setups, showing different results, which are actually not better than Amir's and still not close to SOTA. What am I missing?

 

[mac]

What am I missing?

Please point me to a device with similar capabilities of this unit that has SOTA DAC measurements.

Edit: That's not a miniSHARC combined with four SOTA DAC's.

 

[win]

Please point me to a device with similar capabilities of this unit that's SOTA.

Same, because I want one too.

 

[bigguyca]

My takeaway has been arguing over testing setups, showing different results, which are actually not better than Amir's and still not close to SOTA. What am I missing?

Based on your post, you are clearly missing the basic ability technical to interpret the results that have been presented. The measurements in the following post, which is only a couple posts back:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...u360-review-audio-processor.22497/post-764206

clearly show better results and better results than Amir's measurements. Did you read and understand the post to which you replied:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...u360-review-audio-processor.22497/post-764641

There are few devices with the capabilities of the VENU360. Feed one channel (or two or three or more) (analog or digital} into a two channel PRC DAC and measure the output from the six XLR outputs after filtering, delays, level adjustments and the like. Oh gee, the two channel DAC doesn't do any of this. FAIL. Easy to use software is provided by JBL to manage the VENU360 via IP/Ethernet including storing dozens of configurations. How about your PRC DAC? Does it provide these capabilities?

When opened a VENU360 reveals the components and a layout that should allow the results that are shown in the first link above. The question is, which VENU360's provide these better results? In particular, do the newest units provide these results? Without input from JBL or lots of measurements we don't know. Unfortunately we are on our own here do to a lack of interest in this device by ASR. No doubt you haven't understood any of this, but hopefully the thoughts presented make the situation clear to others.

We have incomplete results on the VENU360. This is unfortunate because the VENU360 offers many worthwhile features.

 

[win]

It's funny because you missed the most obvious part where I say I have one.

All those words and it's just hand waving.