Dan Clark Stealth Review (State of the Art Headphone)

[amirm]

Hey, @amirm, does that make you cringe?

It does. Big time.

 

[amirm]

I think a lot of the time people simply haven't had the chance to do those types of comparisons,

Please walk us through how you did this comparison with Stealth. What music you played, how you did your AB, how you dealt with frequency response differences, levels, etc.

 

[amirm]

To be clear, I think the DCA Stealth is a great sounding headphone haha. It's kind of crazy to me that folks took that stuff to mean something else, but okay

It is not Ok. In your forum folks wrote off this headphone based on your comments and I saw no outrage from you. Just continued faint praise and qualifications. This is fine if anything negative was backed by something reliable. But facts when they exist point to the opposite.

 

[Robbo99999]

I think certain people here like to criticize or dismiss my reviews as 'subjective nonsense' because they do include a subjective aspect to the review. But what these people miss is the fact that this is just one part - the other part is heavily measurements focused in the 'objective' portion. So if you don't like all the audiophile terms, people can just ignore the section of the review where I report my experiences with a thing. People are welcome to have whatever opinions they like about this stuff and I won't go after folks for thinking FR is all there is as far as the experience is concerned (it truly might be). With that said, I do try to connect the dots as much as I can between the two - or where I'm able to, and then report whatever findings show up.

So by all means... cringe away haha.

I think there is only frequency response and distortion as "measured"/experienced by your own eardrum, but this is different to frequency response measured on a GRAS (or any other unit). For instance I notice quite a lot of variation between different models of headphones that have been EQ'd to the same target curve, which is explained by a number of factors:

1. Variation in the measurement procedure. How was the measurement done, was it an average, was it the same methodology between each headphone to arrive at the measurement/average to use for EQ. Ultimately leading to frequency response differences at the eardrum.
2. Unit to Unit variation if not comparing actual units that have been measured. Ultimately leading to frequency response differences at the eardrum.
3. Lastly I think that different models of headphones just react differently (in comparison with eachother) with a persons anatomy in terms of frequency response received at the eardrum, even if you eliminated all the variables in the previous two points and were able to EQ two units of different headphones totally perfectly to the same curve using a GRAS unit.

If there was a way to perfectly capture frequency response at your own eardrum when wearing pairs of different models of headphones that had been EQ'd to the same curve on a GRAS unit, then maybe that might clear up some of the descriptive differences you typically see/experience of certain headphone designs even if they have been EQ'd to the same curve on a GRAS. I can't know this for sure, it's just a theory of mine, but it is clear to me that there's definite differences between headphones that have been EQ'd to the same curve on a GRAS unit.

 

[Dro]

FedEx came early today

 

[Resolve]

Please walk us through how you did this comparison with Stealth. What music you played, how you did your AB, how you dealt with frequency response differences, levels, etc.

Happy to.

So, I first listen to the headphone without measuring (happy to disagree with you about the merits of that of course), just to get a general sense. Then I do the measurements with the GRAS to see if there's anything my subjective experience may have missed - especially as it relates to the tonal balance. Then I do comparisons with other headphones, and use REW to volume match. For the record, I listen at an average around 75-80dB. Then in this particular case, yesterday I took an original HE-6 and EQ'd it to roughly the same tuning as the Stealth to ensure things were reasonably equal. Then spent some more time listening and comparing. I've published a list of my go-to test tracks on our forum - refraining from linking that here because well... it's a different forum and I'm not intending to direct people away from here with this.

In your forum folks wrote off this headphone based on your comments and I saw no outrage from you.

A number of comments indicated they weren't thrilled by one aspect of the description, but lots of folks were also perfectly fine with the description. Should I bias my remarks to suit your opinion? I'd argue it would be disingenuous to misrepresent my experience and my opinion for the sake of appealing to what others may want it to be. Moreover, I make no bones about it being purely subjective, it's right there in the title.

In any case, I'll refrain from engaging any further on this topic with you, as it has a tendency to derail the conversation about the Stealth. Better to keep it about the headphone as @AdamG247 has requested.

 

[MayaTlab]

If there was a way to perfectly capture frequency response at your own eardrum when wearing pairs of different models of headphones that had been EQ'd to the same curve on a GRAS unit

I wouldn't quite call it "perfect", but if you're comparing passive headphones that have a sufficiently low seatings to seatings variation on your own head, I think that it's quite an approachable and easy to learn practice below 1kHz or so with mics like these :
https://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-TFB-2
https://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-EAR-MIC
For DIYers with a soldering iron the bill can be even lower.
Main problem being that your subjective impressions of a pair of HPs are unlikely to be tied only to what happens below 1kHz or so - and I think that it's the case as well for one's subjective assessment of the bass "sound quality" (well at least it is for me).

In regards to the Stealth, since Resolve's measurements suggest that, if one doesn't get an optimal seal, FR can be quite a bit affected, this could be a pretty good way to measure how they exactly behave at lower frequencies on your own head and use that to fine tune their response to match your preferences better than what a preset might be able to do.

Above 1kHz or for active headphones... it's not quite as straightforward I think.

 

[ExquirentibusVeritatem]

Since this is currently the most interesting headphone to me, I haven't really been following the other reviews on this forum. Can someone explain what other measurements are generally provided after the initial review in these threads? If there are no other measurements, wouldn't they all just be subjective observations? I'd love to see more objective measurements and observations, if possible. Especially those related to detail retrieval/resolution, soundstage (or spatial qualities), and what constitutes dynamic sound.

 

[Resolve]

In regards to the Stealth, since Resolve's measurements suggest that, if one doesn't get an optimal seal, FR can be quite a bit affected,

Yes, actually that's why I like to confirm the seating/seal with in-ear microphones. Here's what I got for mine:

I was happy to see it matched the on-rig response. I was initially a bit worried because the Stealth is definitely dependent on a seal, and even using the in-ear mic could potential affect that. But, the results were good.

 

[MayaTlab]

Can someone explain what other measurements are generally provided after the initial review in these threads?

For example :
https://forum.headphones.com/t/dan-clark-audio-stealth-flagship-closed-back-headphones/14072/80
VERY important information right there.
Headphonetestlab or DIYaudio routinely test FR vs. seal as well.
EDIT : Oh well... beat me to it.

 

[ExquirentibusVeritatem]

For example :
https://forum.headphones.com/t/dan-clark-audio-stealth-flagship-closed-back-headphones/14072/80
VERY important information right there.
Headphonetestlab or DIYaudio routinely test FR vs. seal as well.

You're pointing to a different forum. I'm looking for what else is provided here.

 

[amirm]

Then in this particular case, yesterday I took an original HE-6 and EQ'd it to roughly the same tuning as the Stealth to ensure things were reasonably equal.

Like to see that EQ. That aside, in your review you referenced other headphones. Here is what you said: "Detail - good but not like… Abyss or Susvara level. "

How did you do the comparison to Abyss and Susvara.

 

[AdamG]

You're pointing to a different forum. I'm looking for what else is provided here.

Here ya go, of course you have to read them yourself: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?forums/headphone-reviews-discussions.58/

 

[MayaTlab]

You're pointing to a different forum. I'm looking for what else is provided here.

Apologies for the misunderstanding then.
Amir has occasionally provided additional measurements later on in the threads (I'm not sure but was it the case for the HD650's THD post-EQ ?).

 

[Resolve]

I think there is only frequency response and distortion as "measured"/experienced by your own eardrum, but this is different to frequency response measured on a GRAS (or any other unit). For instance I notice quite a lot of variation between different models of headphones that have been EQ'd to the same target curve, which is explained by a number of factors:

1. Variation in the measurement procedure. How was the measurement done, was it an average, was it the same methodology between each headphone to arrive at the measurement/average to use for EQ. Ultimately leading to frequency response differences at the eardrum.
2. Unit to Unit variation if not comparing actual units that have been measured. Ultimately leading to frequency response differences at the eardrum.
3. Lastly I think that different models of headphones just react differently (in comparison with eachother) with a persons anatomy in terms of frequency response received at the eardrum, even if you eliminated all the variables in the previous two points and were able to EQ two units of different headphones totally perfectly to the same curve using a GRAS unit.

If there was a way to perfectly capture frequency response at your own eardrum when wearing pairs of different models of headphones that had been EQ'd to the same curve on a GRAS unit, then maybe that might clear up some of the descriptive differences you typically see/experience of certain headphone designs even if they have been EQ'd to the same curve on a GRAS. I can't know this for sure, it's just a theory of mine, but it is clear to me that there's definite differences between headphones that have been EQ'd to the same curve on a GRAS unit.

I think this has a lot of merit, and it's why I like the idea that FR is likely the single most important metric for this stuff. It doesn't exactly solve the problem of being able to perfectly replicate the results with various different headphones, but I imagine that if you could, you would get the same subjective experience - again theoretically.

 

[Resolve]

Like to see that EQ. That aside, in your review you referenced other headphones. Here is what you said: "Detail - good but not like… Abyss or Susvara level. "

How did you do the comparison to Abyss and Susvara.

By listening to them. Susvara is my favorite headphone at the moment, even though it's also not great for that same 'contrast' quality. And I'm actually working on an AB1266 Phi TC review right now. Quick spoiler on that: it's pretty weird haha.

Maybe I should've expressed it in better understood terms. Susvara for me is like finally upgrading to an even fancier OLED TV.

 

[amirm]

Especially those related to detail retrieval/resolution, soundstage (or spatial qualities), and what constitutes dynamic sound.

Detail retrieval is a made up word by reviewers. It has no proper definition so there can't be any measurement to back it. I would ignore all such references.

On spatial qualities, by far the determinant for that is lack of energy in the 1 to 5 kHz. In countless headphones with this issue, I am able to correct that with EQ and spatial qualities become substantially better. So the proof you are looking for is in the frequency response. That said, I allow room for 10% of something else contributing to that. What that is, is an unknown. It could be that we are wrong and there is nothing there. Or it could be that it has something to do with reflections in the cup, angle of the driver, etc.

 

[amirm]

By listening to them. Susvara is my favorite headphone at the moment, even though it's also not great for that same 'contrast' quality. And I'm actually working on an AB1266 Phi TC review right now. Quick spoiler on that: it's pretty weird haha.

Come on now. I am asking specifics here. What did you do to compare these headphones. How much time you spent on it. What tracks you played. What EQ you used. How you matched levels. Did you ask opinion of anyone else. etc.

At high level, how reliable do you think your subjective impressions are in this regard? Give us a percentage.

 

[Robbo99999]

I wouldn't quite call it "perfect", but if you're comparing passive headphones that have a sufficiently low seatings to seatings variation on your own head, I think that it's quite an approachable and easy to learn practice below 1kHz or so with mics like these :
https://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-TFB-2
https://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-EAR-MIC
For DIYers with a soldering iron the bill can be even lower.
Main problem being that your subjective impressions of a pair of HPs are unlikely to be tied only to what happens below 1kHz or so - and I think that it's the case as well for one's subjective assessment of the bass "sound quality" (well at least it is for me).

In regards to the Stealth, since Resolve's measurements suggest that, if one doesn't get an optimal seal, FR can be quite a bit affected, this could be a pretty good way to measure how they exactly behave at lower frequencies on your own head and use that to fine tune their response to match your preferences better than what a preset might be able to do.

Above 1kHz or for active headphones... it's not quite as straightforward I think.

Yes, I've seen your comparisons of headphones measured on your own head before, that had been EQ'd to Oratory.....there is value in the differences you saw, some of those differences are gonna come down to the points I brought up in my previous post.

Headphones are a difficult animal to tie down, there's a lot of variabilities associated with headphone listening that can't really be completely removed, many more than speaker listening....but it is nice that headphone listening at least removes the room's negative influence on bass, and headphones have way less distortion than speakers generally. I totally enjoy headphone listening as well as speaker listening, so it doesn't ruin it for me.

 

[AdamG]

Last warning…..Back on topic or Thread Reply Bans will be forthcoming.