DAC Noise Modulation: Chord DAVE vs Topping DX7 Pro+

[TabCam]

RW caught being deceptive and misleading again on Chord's behalf.

Nice review... and solidly clears up some points perpetuated by RW and followers.

@TabCam & @PcChip ... what say you now?


JSmith

You did and do not understand the points I tried to make. I have disagreed with some of the measurements on the Chord Hugo 2 and stated that ASR members have often misquoted RW and that the recommendation is too biased IMHO.

 

[voodooless]

As I explained, it means the cable is connected but the DAC is not asked to output anything.

That is still ambiguous. If I send it zero's I'm also asking it to not output anything...

So you are seeing the idle noise of the DAC compared to when it is producing near max signal.

No, in many cases you're just looking at what the muting circuits are doing.

Any valid PCM value would have shown a spike in the "no signal" case at 1 kHz and we see none of that.

Why would a bunch of zeros have a spike at 1 kHz?

 

[JSmith]

You did and do not understand the points I tried to make.

Nice deferral... although this is not reality, hence moot. If you actually responded to points raised in posts directed at you, that would help. The balance of the points you made here were addressed in the other thread, yet you repeat them like they're facts, which they're not.

RW has not been misquoted in this thread in comparing the Dave vs a DX7 Pro... what is posted in the OP is exactly what he has claimed. Maybe you missed the embedded link again?

I should have expected such a hollow reply from you... unsure why I bothered tagging you now as you appear to be quite disingenuous in a number of posts.


JSmith

 

[amirm]

Why would a bunch of zeros have a spike at 1 kHz?

The lowest value signal in 24 bit PCM is at -144 dBFS. This is many dBs above the noise floor of this measurement:

If you mean truly zero, as in not output anything, well that is the test we have.

 

[Matias]

@amirm thanks for the review. Just a typo at the end ("runs easily outperforms") that needs fixing.

 

[amirm]

You did and do not understand the points I tried to make. I have disagreed with some of the measurements on the Chord Hugo 2 and stated that ASR members have often misquoted RW and that the recommendation is too biased IMHO.

I linked to, and quote precisely what Rob Watts has said and shown. If you think otherwise, show it. Don't throw out claims like this.

 

[amirm]

@amirm thanks for the review. Just a typo at the end ("runs easily outperforms") that needs fixing.

Thanks. Fixed.

 

[voodooless]

If you mean truly zero, as in not output anything, well that is the test we have.

Well, that is what I mean. So if we have that, we're good! Thanks for clarifying.

 

[GWolfman]

@amirm Thanks for enlightening us all, and helping us not fall into their marketing hype.

 

[DSJR]

Could this kind of test be done for future reviews please, especially the lower priced dacs coming out so regularly now?

 

[Jimster480]

To be completely honest here, if I had the money and bought a Dave back in 2015 I would have been extremely happy. Not until the last couple of years we have seen the inexpensive competition getting to those levels of performance. A Dave today is not a good deal at all, but was it state of the art back then? Probably yes.

Not really, you could have bought Benchmark or bought an Oppo Bluray Player.... both of those have somewhat similar performance for much less money. Not topping money but also not $15k+.

As I explained, it means the cable is connected but the DAC is not asked to output anything. So you are seeing the idle noise of the DAC compared to when it is producing near max signal. Any valid PCM value would have shown a spike in the "no signal" case at 1 kHz and we see none of that.

So basically Watts used some device that isn't the Dave to record this or put it into some special mode that nobody else can get it into to make it quieter?

 

[the_brunx]

The last standing Rob Watts fans:

No matter how clearer it gets.

 

[danadam]

No, in many cases you're just looking at what the muting circuits are doing.

Yeah, I would also try with dithered silence instead of all zeros, just in case.

 

[Lukino]

As time went on, the question marks disappeared on the newer product, even though it was cheaper. The silence has improved...

 

[xaviescacs]

Very nice review and interesting results. It'll be interesting to see what Chord does in the next years (if components are available).

 

[BALKAN_RAKIA]

Topping E30 II costs 94 times less than Dave. I will go on with my day thinking about this.

 

[restorer-john]

We immediately see confirmation of my reviews of both products: Topping DX7 Pro+ despite costing 20 times less, has much lower noise floor. It seems to have more distortion spikes but that is because the noise floor is so low, allowing them to peak through. In absolute levels, it is still superior to DAVE DAC by 6 dB.

The Topping may have a lower noise floor, but it DOES have more distortion spikes and they ARE greater in absolute level than the Dave DAC.

Your data and your FFT Amir.

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

Interestingly Dave shows almost no distortion. Very unusual behavior.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

The Topping may have a lower noise floor, but it DOES have more distortion spikes and they ARE greater in absolute level than the Dave DAC.

Your data and your FFT Amir.

Just asking;
The distortion peaks are lower than Dave's, are they more visible because of the lower noise floor?
I mean, if we artificially raise the noise floor of the topping, wouldn't they get buried in the sand?

But in reality, a seven-year-old design that is neck and neck with this month's top of the line DAC, that is some achievement!
OK I get the notion of $14K, I can't afford one, so it might as well be $140K.
But from purely an engineering POV!

 

[voodooless]

The Topping may have a lower noise floor, but it DOES have more distortion spikes and they ARE greater in absolute level than the Dave DAC.

Only at 6k might you call that anywhere close to significant. For the 4k and 10k ones, the Chord is much higher. Overall, I'd still say the Topping has the better distortion.