DAC Noise Modulation: Chord DAVE vs Topping DX7 Pro+

[FrantzM]

Well.. Seems measurements are striking a "chord" in the High End Audio community...

RW knows his stuff, no doubt... actually, well enough to be able to be disingenuous. His points would have flown ... so much, the concepts are above the comprehension of most audiophiles and engineers (Yours very truly, included) ... He couldn't have foreseen the "inconvenience" that is the deep knowledge of some people, among these, some who won an EMMY

I need to re-read the review. Some of the concepts discussed in it, are not striking the "chord", are not entirely "groked"... Time to pull out those old signal processing notes and textbooks ...

Peace.

 

[Koeitje]

Pretty impressive for a 7 year old DAC, but not competitive anymore is my takeaway here.

 

[restorer-john]

All the numbers are well into the area of measurebating, but the Chord is really excellent for its age. We also know that 7+ years on, the Chord Dave is reliable, something some of those other brands haven't quite nailed yet...

 

[amirm]

All the numbers are well into the area of measurebating, but the Chord is really excellent for its age. We also know that 7+ years on, the Chord Dave is reliable, something some of those other brands haven't quite nailed yet...

There a ton of reliability issues reported for chord. I suggest not making assumptions like you are making. It is also off topic.

 

[Music1969]

I can't wait to see Rob's response to this.

He is always saying his DACs are the only in the world without noise floor modulation and we now see this claim is plain false - his flagship Dave does show measurable noise floor modulation.

And we see here another DAC that has noise at lower levels.

 

[Sokel]

But in reality, a seven-year-old design that is neck and neck with this month's top of the line DAC, that is some achievement!
OK I get the notion of $14K, I can't afford one, so it might as well be $140K.
But from purely an engineering POV!

I don't know if I did it right but the way I see the measurement I tried to replicate it with a 14 year old dac much cheaper than Chord and Topping (120 euros back then) and I got this.
Not sure If I did it right thought,so...

Edit: previous screen confusing

 

[PoorishDecision]

Thing's have come a long way in such a short time, the Dave is expensive but was state of the art in its day. It's a quirky statement piece but also a relic now, I'd still be happy to have one honestly.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

I don't know if I did it right but the way I see the measurement I tried to replicate it with a 14 year old dac much cheaper than Chord and Topping (120 euros back then) and I got this.
Not sure If I did it right thought,so...

View attachment 229041

I wouldn't know, @amirm is your guy!
At any rate, at those levels, you need a true 32bit ADC of some quality, to be able to get an accurate graph like that.

 

[restorer-john]

There a ton of reliability issues reported for chord. I suggest not making assumptions like you are making. It is also off topic.

With respect Amir, it's not off topic. You are reviewing and comparing a 7 year old Chord design with a brand new Topping product. The fact that you even can test that 7 year old product against the new Topping design speaks to the Chord's reliability wouldn't you say?

You say there are 'reliability issues reported' for Chord. What specific issues? Just how many dedicated threads and reports are there in relation 'reliability issues' with Chord products on ASR? I haven't seen one. Please point me a thread similar to the various long running thread/s for the 'other' brand we are not mentioning.

What's good for the goose is also good for the gander.

 

[Carlo2AC]

While i understand the intent of this post

Especially to demystify how Chord is portrayed in some audiophile circles


The wording and conclusion feels like a big marketing post for Topping, it should've been more agnostic and less opinionated

 

[Sokel]

I wouldn't know, @amirm is your guy!
At any rate, at those levels, you need a true 32bit ADC of some quality, to be able to get an accurate graph like that.

The capture is by it's own ADC,so...

 

[Landauer]

With respect Amir, it's not off topic. You are reviewing and comparing a 7 year old Chord design with a brand new Topping product. The fact that you even can test that 7 year old product against the new Topping design speaks to the Chord's reliability wouldn't you say?

You say there are 'reliability issues reported' for Chord. What specific issues? Just how many dedicated threads and reports are there in relation 'reliability issues' with Chord products on ASR? I haven't seen one. Please point me a thread similar to the various long running thread/s for the 'other' brand we are not mentioning.

What's good for the goose is also good for the gander.

On the other hand, how many people own a Topping DAC compared to a 14k DAC? You are less likely to see such complaints etc. With the less expensive stuff (e g. Mojo) there are threads to be found. Not saying Chord products have reliability issues though, but I don't think people buy them due to their reliability anyway.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

The capture is by it's own ADC,so...

I don't know what the device is, it seems it is an ADC/DAC .
I wonder how well it can measure itself, in the same enclosure, powersupply etc.
The APx is at the limit of its reliability at those levels.
Again, I am guessing, perhaps someone more knowledgeable can chip in.

 

[Landauer]

I can't wait to see Rob's response to this.

He is always saying his DACs are the only in the world without noise floor modulation and we now see this claim is plain false - his flagship Dave does show measurable noise floor modulation.

And we see here another DAC that has noise at lower levels.

IIRC, Bruno made a similar claim for the Mola Mola Tambaqui about noise floor modulation. Would be interesting to see, but I guess Amir does not have it anymore.

 

[Geert]

The fact that you even can test that 7 year old product against the new Topping design speaks to the Chord's reliability wouldn't you say?

My TC Electronic M3000 multi effect is about 15 years old, my Digidesign MBox Mini is even older. Both being used on a daily base and still working fine.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Just another data point. Here is a Topping D10 Balanced feeding an RME Babyface Pro FS. Green is 1 khz at -1 dbFS and purple is same thing only at -120 dbFS. Noise is a bit different, and of course the harmonics of the high level 1 khz tone are visible. This is a 1 million FFT.

 

[Jim Shaw]

"How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?"
All this while some of us raise eyebrows over Von Karajan's tempo in the second movement of the 7th.

Different strokes...

 

[Garrincha]

All the numbers are well into the area of measurebating, but the Chord is really excellent for its age. We also know that 7+ years on, the Chord Dave is reliable, something some of those other brands haven't quite nailed yet...

Well, that is the least you could expect spending 14k. Yes, the DAVE measured impressive for 2015, but it is sold still today, when it is only average, but with the same ludicrous price. Maybe he is trying to become something like a vintage DAC, like a Silver Arrow (Silberpfeil) or 300 SL gull wing Mercedes (which were very fast at that time and for many many years, 1954: 215hp, 230 km/h) ? But in comparison the design of the DAVE......

 

[Garrincha]

Great review, it is really nice and important to check every high flying statement of RW that can possibly been measured. Caught once again. When will it end?

 

[DonDish]

Very interesting analysis indeed. High-end british Goliath beaten by chinese David. I wonder, reading this. These are sharp end measurements, right? In a broader sense could you give some credit to the Dave DAC over the Topping, apart from the Daves rather polarizing exteriors. Is there any credit to give? What do all those extra sterlings actually pay for. Is there some better volume control technology, or anything really. @amirm