Crown amp?

[mhardy6647]

I think he means there is potential for plugging in, an AC energized SpeakOn somewhere where it doesn't belong.

I am no fan of Nelson Pass but I have always wanted to use some of those computer cpu heatsinks for something kewl , either in audio or to cool an image or spectroscopic sensor. Maybe with some active Peltier effect cooling.

It's not AC, it's low voltage DC (which, I grant you, wouldn't be good for a loudspeaker). It's got two Dell laptop power supplies (with their cords) dangling from it -- and it is the only SpeakOn in the house... so I think we're good here.

Heck, I use dual banana plugs for loudspeaker connections... with malice aforethought.
Don't tell the EU.

 

[gene_stl]

Heck, I use dual banana plugs for loudspeaker connections... with malice aforethought.

Isn't that what everybody uses????
Screw the EU. They are the ones that brought us ROHS which ruined electronics for good. Because they were too cheap and lazy to develop separate waste streams. Now the whole world has to deal with unreliable electronics.

 

[Prana Ferox]

Just sold my Crown XLS1502. Sounded fine in the garage, but seriously lacking at the gig. Mids were lacking. Overall sound like plastic. Started to be effected by the ASR nonsense and thought that all amps sound the same. Sold it and replaced with with an older QSC class H amp. Sounds much better. Band mates, who have no interest in audio or opinions about power amps noticed the difference right away. The consensus was that the mids lacked slam.

Now... I've heard of bass slam... but midrange slam... that's a new one on me.

I've also heard of punchy bass -- but I'd really prefer not to be physically abused by my hifi componentry.
I'm just a chicken pacifist, I guess.

He's using bass guitarist lingo. Generally 'slam' in the 'mids' would be around 120 to 300 hz, extending a little above the 'punch' of a kick drum you may be thinking of. Without knowing what pre he was using and how the Crown was fed, there's no telling what was going on, but bass amps are rarely flat and often have a baked-in boost in the low mids, so a flat amp would sound light there without EQ (which any bass pre would have.) I'm surprised he didn't complain about 'cutting through the mix' but I have no idea what sounding 'plastic' means.

Bass players have a lot of odd superstitions and one of those is that the heavier the lead-sled amp the deeper the bass, thus light class D amps must clearly have trouble pumping out the low end - an idea slowly dying now that the non-tube bass amp market has completely converted over to class D.

 

[JRS]

He's using bass guitarist lingo. Generally 'slam' in the 'mids' would be around 120 to 300 hz, extending a little above the 'punch' of a kick drum you may be thinking of. Without knowing what pre he was using and how the Crown was fed, there's no telling what was going on, but bass amps are rarely flat and often have a baked-in boost in the low mids, so a flat amp would sound light there without EQ (which any bass pre would have.) I'm surprised he didn't complain about 'cutting through the mix' but I have no idea what sounding 'plastic' means.

Bass players have a lot of odd superstitions and one of those is that the heavier the lead-sled amp the deeper the bass, thus light class D amps must clearly have trouble pumping out the low end - an idea slowly dying now that the non-tube bass amp market has completely converted over to class D.

Old habits die hard, but even Stereophile is drooling over the current crop of Class D amps. As to boat anchors I still have a couple of 500W Classe Class A monoblocks that truly dim the room lights when turning on--can almost sense the whoosh of charge flowing into them.

I consider selling them every so often, but there's some nostalgia working against my better judgement. Also a reminder of how foolish I was. I was just driving some Thiel's and later Dunlavy's with them, both dynamic driver speakers of medium efficiency.

Talking about changing times, I grabbed those second hand for 5k/pr. The original price was 5k apiece, which in todays dollar probably 30K. Now a 1000 bucks buys you some serious effing amplification, that is likely every bit as good, and for what 2000 Euro for the 400W x 2 Hypex stereo module possibly better specs.

The Classe's do double down all the way to 2 ohms which is remarkable, so you can imagine the iron in those monsters. But hot as hell and unreliable as well--which is likely why I got them nearly new for 1/2 price. God I was dumb. Now I am looking at Crowns for the same 500w/side and prepared to spend oh maybe 800.

Which is why I am posting. The product line is so diverse, I'm a bit overwhelmed by the choices, and the web site I'm not finding helpful. What I need is about 250 W/side and 3dB of headroom. Wouldn't mind having some DSP, but will be doing that upstream eventually, just that EQ and delay may be handy to have at the amps.

 

[dlaloum]

This is the series you should probably look at:

XLS DriveCore 2 Series | Crown Audio - Professional Power Amplifiers | English (US)

Meet the new XLS DriveCore 2 Series. The next generation of XLS got a makeover with a sleek new look, larger LCD display, and more DSP with higher functionality.

www.crownaudio.com

And for 250W @ 8ohm rms with a bit of headroom - probably this - 300W/ch 8ohm rms:

Crown XLS 1502

Meet the new XLS DriveCore™ 2 Series The next generation of XLS got a makeover with a sleek n...

www.crownaudio.com

And the steps up to the more powerful models are small $$ wise - so you may just want to take the step as a headroom failsafe.

Being pro amps, they often also turn up used - they can be a bit bashed about (scratches and such) but working perfectly...

I picked up a pair of the previous generation XLS2500 (current version is the XLS2502) that way, at less than half the discounted retail price....

The older generation have only the pro level inputs (1.4Vrms) - the current generation allow for both domestic and pro levels
Both generations have onboard DSP - so you can do things like Bi-Amping completely internal to the power amp, using onboard DSP crossover

Pricing on ebay for the XLS2500 (440W) used, tends to run in the US$450 to US$500 range

 

[JRS]

Those are very reasonable and I can actually get by with the 1002, given the drivers are 4 ohm loads. For 400.00 new, hard to go wrong. Thank you.

 

[Jdunk54nl]

Those are very reasonable and I can actually get by with the 1002, given the drivers are 4 ohm loads. For 400.00 new, hard to go wrong. Thank you.

If you aren't in a hurry, take a look at buckeye amps. You can get into them for not much more or even possibly cheaper. For most, buckeye amps are endgame amps.
If you just want 1002's, then the 252 configurations would be what you want.

Buckeye Amps: New US based Hypex multichannel amplifier builder, line-up announcement!

Hypex NC502MP Power Specs (1kHz, THD = 1%): - 450w @ 2ohm (per channel, peak) - 500w @ 4ohm (per channel, peak) - 350w @ 8ohm (per channel, peak) Hypex NC252MP Power Specs (1kHz, THD = 1%): - 180w @ 2ohm (per channel, peak) - 250w @ 4ohm (per channel, peak) - 150w @ 8ohm (per channel, peak) XL...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[dlaloum]

Those are very reasonable and I can actually get by with the 1002, given the drivers are 4 ohm loads. For 400.00 new, hard to go wrong. Thank you.

One thing to watch out for... the 1002 has 97db signal/noise - the rest of the range has 103db ....

This (IMO) is an indicator of some cut corners.... I would opt for the 1502 as my minimum as a result.

Having said that... 97db is heaps.

 

[Jdunk54nl]

One thing to watch out for... the 1002 has 97db signal/noise - the rest of the range has 103db ....

This (IMO) is an indicator of some cut corners.... I would opt for the 1502 as my minimum as a result.

Having said that... 97db is heaps.

As measured here, the 1002 has about 75db sinad. Costs $385 new plus tax and shipping.

Crown XLS1002 Pro Amplifier Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Crown XLS 1002 rack mounted pro amplifier. It was kindly purchased new by a member and drop shipped to me. The 1002 costs US $339 including Prime shipping from Amazon. Note: our company, Madrona Digital, is a dealer for Harman and hence Crown...

www.audiosciencereview.com

The 1502 has about 76db sinad. Costs $500 new plus tax/shipping.

Review and Measurements of Crown XLS 1502 Amp

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Crown XLS 1502 "PA" Power Amplifier. It is on a kind loan from a member who bought it new and drop shipped it to me. It retails for USD $349 including free Prime shipping from Amazon. At that price, it seems like an incredible value. I have...

www.audiosciencereview.com

The buckeye 252mp series has 93db sinad costs $529 (that is total out the door) for a 2 channel and prices differences get closer with more channels up to 8. Also, this is one case that would take up way less room compared to 4 crown cases.

Buckeye 6 Channel Amplifier Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Buckeye Hypex NC252MP based, 6-channel amplifier. It costs US $1149 as of this writing. The owner/builder is @Buckeye Amps on our forum. The looks are fine for a well-priced build: The unit is quite light courtesy of rather thin sheet...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Unless you need it right away, I'd go buckeye. The price difference gets very narrow if you need more channels.

8 channels crown 1002 = $1540 plus tax and shipping

8 channels 252mp = $1649 total shipped

 

[Tom C]

Are new Crowns available? Last I looked, all were out of stock, with no expected restock date.

 

[Jdunk54nl]

Are new Crowns available? Last I looked, all were out of stock, with no expected restock date.

Muscians friend has them in stock: https://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro...Y_zlTI6-7mkp--RqMmjQOSNLmRU9KynxoCu9AQAvD_BwE

 

[rdenney]

He's using bass guitarist lingo. Generally 'slam' in the 'mids' would be around 120 to 300 hz, extending a little above the 'punch' of a kick drum you may be thinking of. Without knowing what pre he was using and how the Crown was fed, there's no telling what was going on, but bass amps are rarely flat and often have a baked-in boost in the low mids, so a flat amp would sound light there without EQ (which any bass pre would have.) I'm surprised he didn't complain about 'cutting through the mix' but I have no idea what sounding 'plastic' means.

Bass players have a lot of odd superstitions and one of those is that the heavier the lead-sled amp the deeper the bass, thus light class D amps must clearly have trouble pumping out the low end - an idea slowly dying now that the non-tube bass amp market has completely converted over to class D.

My Peavey bass amp is, in any dimension relevant to any other purpose, a piece of garbage. (It isn't really even that good as a bass amp, but it is serviceable--far more serviceable than my sub-beginner abilities on electric bass.) I tried to use it as a PA amp once, during the early part of the pandemic when there was no hope of obtaining any alternative. By the time I had it EQ'd to any semblance of full-range, about three-quarters of the power was no longer there and the sound was decidedly low-fi.

I'm reminded of Chris Squire, who reportedly ended up with a biamped setup. Wakeman described Squire's equalization as the bass turned all the way up, the treble turned all the way up, and the mids turned all the way down. He wanted the low-bass thump but also guitar clarity. That Peavey amp couldn't have done that, even with its equalizer. But I think a couple of big Crowns feeding cabinets with 18" drivers and horn tweeters could do it. And if they are Class D, the roadies will be your friend.

Rick "who has big hands but whose brain can't seem to do much that's useful with the left one" Denney

 

[rdenney]

If you aren't in a hurry, take a look at buckeye amps. You can get into them for not much more or even possibly cheaper. For most, buckeye amps are endgame amps.
If you just want 1002's, then the 252 configurations would be what you want.

Buckeye Amps: New US based Hypex multichannel amplifier builder, line-up announcement!

Hypex NC502MP Power Specs (1kHz, THD = 1%): - 450w @ 2ohm (per channel, peak) - 500w @ 4ohm (per channel, peak) - 350w @ 8ohm (per channel, peak) Hypex NC252MP Power Specs (1kHz, THD = 1%): - 180w @ 2ohm (per channel, peak) - 250w @ 4ohm (per channel, peak) - 150w @ 8ohm (per channel, peak) XL...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Yes, but you could also buy a pair of bridged 502's for less than $1400 that would give nothing up to those Classe amps in power, and wouldn't need the cooling fans found on Crown amps. 600 wpc into 8 ohms at better than -94 dB THD with a 3 dB headroom (read: 1.2 KW at 1% THD).

Rick "power these days is easy" Denney

 

[blanddawg62]

I use a xls 1502 for subwoofer. They work. Some hiss from them on my current high sensitivity speakers though. Can't hear it through subwoofer so works fine for that.

Personally, now with Buckeye amps, you can get a 2 channel 502mp for $650 which puts out 500w @ 4ohms. Or get a 4 channel for $1049 and get up to 1000w @ 4 ohms by bridging for 2 channel (or have 4 channels at 500w)

Buckeye Amps: New US based Hypex multichannel amplifier builder, line-up announcement!

Hypex NC502MP Power Specs (1kHz, THD = 1%): - 450w @ 2ohm (per channel, peak) - 500w @ 4ohm (per channel, peak) - 350w @ 8ohm (per channel, peak) Hypex NC252MP Power Specs (1kHz, THD = 1%): - 180w @ 2ohm (per channel, peak) - 250w @ 4ohm (per channel, peak) - 150w @ 8ohm (per channel, peak) XL...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I used a Crown PS200 for over a year and recently got a PS400. There is no hiss whatsoever in either, nor are there fans on them to make noise. They have a multi mode system that allows them to run in pure class A at low volumes then class A + B at middling volume and then class A/B at high volume. The PS200 and 400 are the same as the Crown Powerline 3 and 4, respectively. Those were designed for home use and they all sound as good as many amps I have owned and better than alot I have owned. I only use 4 ohm speakers so they have plenty of power. The 200 has 165 watts and the 400 has 330 watts per channel with .05% THD. These are excellent amps that fly under the radar.

 

[blanddawg62]

I've used Crown cdi 4/1200 on my JBL M2 clones for a year, replaced hypex nc400 due to gainstructure leading to too little power.
The Crown sounded very similar but with a hiss level that gives that "gray" sounding quality in the highs. Keep in mind the 110 dB sensitivity tweeter here, though.

To me the most important quality is enough power and after that the absence of noise. Distortion needs to be really bad to become the dominant factor for sound degradation. I expect most Crowns to be around that fine line where distortion may or may not be a noticeable factor judging by the measurements made by Amir.

So, if you can get enough power and no noticeable noise with similar cost going the Hypex route, I wouldn't even consider a Crown for hifi-usage.
If you need crazy power and won't be annoyed with the inherent noise and could have use for active cooling and sustained performance/reliability, Crown is a good proposition.

Oh, and even if this is ASR where people are focused on rationality and hard evidence I wouldn't place any more weight on opinions here than anywhere else because most of us are just talking out of our ass with perpetually repeated assumptions and statements that may or may not actually hold any real truth to it.

Go to YouTube and search Amcron PS400 test. Amcron is just the international name for Crown. The measurements speak for themselves.

 

[SirPaulGerman]

Found a Crown 800 CLS, for cheap, I noticed the THX logo.

https://www.crownaudio.com/en/site_elements/csl-series-reference-manual

Too much for home audio ?

 

[Sal1950]

Found a Crown 800 CLS, for cheap, I noticed the THX logo.

https://www.crownaudio.com/en/site_elements/csl-series-reference-manual

Too much for home audio ?

I see no reason to think that.
What are you worried over?

 

[Sal1950]

THX was mostly a marketing gimick that got rolling during the Star Wars cinema days.
Many folks heard good quality sound and low bass that they hadn't experience before at the theater so they thought it meant something special.
Mainly it meant the manufacturer had sent it to be tested and it didn't blow up. LOL
Many moons ago I used a pair of NAD 2400 THX's in mono to drive my subwoofers, they didn't blow up either.

Found a Crown 800 CLS, for cheap, I noticed the THX logo.

Forget about the logo, it means next to nothing, It's spec''d at 300wpc into 8 ohms both channels driven.
A fairly muscular, fan cooled pro amp.
I don't know whats cheap to you, used they sell everywhere for $200-300 dollars.
I don't think I'd pay more than $200

 

[Wolf]

Uses balanced TRS plug inputs, so adapters to RCA are not a good idea. It needs a balanced input.
Other than that, I'd say it's fine.

 

[SirPaulGerman]

Uses balanced TRS plug inputs, so adapters to RCA are not a good idea. It needs a balanced input.
Other than that, I'd say it's fine.

Very noise fan