Crossover-less Passive Speakers

[watchnerd]

I hope your right, but I am expecting this to be music streaming focused, not DSP, but they have a history of doing things no one predicted so I hope something I really want turns up.

Did you order a 440 pro or 400, the non-pro won't get the new OS board to the best of my knowledge.

Oh, I agree on the focus. But once they have the proper HW and OS in place, adding better DSP will be easier. If nothing else, someone will hack the box, publish details, and users will be able to jailbreak and follow suit.

I checked with support -- the non-Pro can be upgraded to the new board (not for free) by upgrading it to Pro.

 

[Soniclife]

Oh, I agree on the focus. But once they have the proper HW and OS in place, adding better DSP will be easier. If nothing else, someone will hack the box, publish details, and users will be able to jailbreak and follow suit.

I checked with support -- the non-Pro can be upgraded to the new board (not for free) by upgrading it to Pro.

I'm not sure the community is large enough for hacking to be probable, unless they re-use someone else's board, which does not seem like them.

The upgrade from 400 to 440 was very worthwhile for me, just for the SQ increase, into my speakers, to my taste IMHO etc.

 

[Speedskater]

Doug Self suggested that an external crossover would allow more space to spread the inductors out and reduce inductor crosstalk.

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

Doug Self suggested that an external crossover would allow more space to spread the inductors out and reduce inductor crosstalk.

Not sure if I can see the need. Most speaker boxes would seem large enough to achieve sufficient spread of inductors, etc. as necessary.

 

[DonH56]

I would use the word "coupling" instead of "crosstalk" but, whatever you call it, it does exist and is a problem in some crossovers. I think for most speakers it is a decision to use the smallest board possible to save cost rather than a size constraint of the box itself but I am not a speaker designer. Just re-orienting the inductors (and/or capacitors) can help in some cases.

 

[jhaider]

Both the JBL M2 (sold without internal crossovers) and my recent exploration of the "super integrated" amp market, several of which have built-in DSP crossover capabilities, have me wonder if in the future we may see passive speakers being sold with no crossover whatsoever -- the crossover will be implemented external in DSP by the amp.
...
I'm thinking of personally implementing this by getting a 2 way with great drivers, ripping out the crossover, and doing all the electronics work via DSP outside.?

Aren't most of the "super integrated" amps still 2-channel boxes? That would make doing 2-way speakers terribly difficult.

However, you could get what you want from a compact 2-box package: miniDSP 2x4HD and Parasound Zonemaster 450, or 650 if you want more power for the midwoofer.

I think it's largely a solution in search of a problem. The big problem with most 2-ways today is incompatible dispersion between midwoofer and tweeter around the crossover point, not passive crossover components. Three ways with small midranges, or 2-ways with large tweeter waveguides, are the way out of that.

 

[watchnerd]

I'm not sure the community is large enough for hacking to be probable, unless they re-use someone else's board, which does not seem like them.

The upgrade from 400 to 440 was very worthwhile for me, just for the SQ increase, into my speakers, to my taste IMHO etc.

I'm pretty sure they'll use an existing CPU. Devialet isn't going to commission a custom CPU:

 

[watchnerd]

Aren't most of the "super integrated" amps still 2-channel boxes? That would make doing 2-way speakers terribly difficult.

Both NAD M32 and the Devialet 2-box (400/440 & 800) solutions have 4 sets of speaker jacks with configurable high pass / low pass for each.

 

[watchnerd]

I'm not sure the community is large enough for hacking to be probable, unless they re-use someone else's board, which does not seem like them.

The upgrade from 400 to 440 was very worthwhile for me, just for the SQ increase, into my speakers, to my taste IMHO etc.

BTW, what speakers are you using and are you using SAM?

 

[watchnerd]

The big problem with most 2-ways today is incompatible dispersion between midwoofer and tweeter around the crossover point, not passive crossover components. Three ways with small midranges, or 2-ways with large tweeter waveguides, are the way out of that.

Don't let Captain Kii / @Purité Audio hear you say that!

 

[watchnerd]

Apparently the Kudos Titan range are exactly what this thread is about, designed to be driven by Linn, Naim, Devialet:

"Do you have, or are you considering, a Linn or Devialet system? Kudos are delighted to be working with both Linn and Devialet to bring their exciting technologies into selected Kudos loudspeakers, including the Titan 606 [707 / 808]"

http://kudosaudio.com/titan808/

 

[Soniclife]

I'm pretty sure they'll use an existing CPU. Devialet isn't going to commission a custom CPU:

I'm sure they will use off the shelf parts, but they can lock them down with encryption, signature keys or whatever, and I expect them to.
There has been no attempt so far to (to my knowledge) to edit the existing config files that only have a simple looking check sum at the top. If they were open to editing you could roll your own the SAM filter if you can guess the parms passed.

 

[Soniclife]

BTW, what speakers are you using and are you using SAM?

Sonus Faber Guarneri Evolution.

I use SAM, for me it sounds and measures like they intend it to. It takes my speakers from not quite as full range as most recordings, to deeper extension into the bass than most recordings go, up to sensible volumes. It won't do flat to 20Hz at 100db, but it will do flatish to almost 30Hz at 85db, in room at the listening position.

Trying room correction is on my to-do list, I view SAM as speaker correction, or possibly more accurately bass driver correction.

 

[Soniclife]

Apparently the Kudos Titan range are exactly what this thread is about, designed to be driven by Linn, Naim, Devialet:

"Do you have, or are you considering, a Linn or Devialet system? Kudos are delighted to be working with both Linn and Devialet to bring their exciting technologies into selected Kudos loudspeakers, including the Titan 606 [707 / 808]"

http://kudosaudio.com/titan808/

I'd be really interested in this if I liked their passive speakers. I cannot find out how to activate this in the configurator, would have been interesting to see what it did.

 

[RayDunzl]

Trying room correction is on my to-do list, I view SAM as speaker correction, or possibly more accurately bass driver correction.

I view "Room Correction" (by DSP) as "Speaker Correction for the listening position".

 

[jhaider]

Both NAD M32 and the Devialet 2-box (400/440 & 800) solutions have 4 sets of speaker jacks with configurable high pass / low pass for each.

I don't think that's correct as to the M32. I read the NAD M32 manual, and I read it as having two channels of amplification, with extra posts to help dealers sell cables to allow biwiring. Chris Eberle's review also indicates that it has two amp channels:
"Since the Axioms normally require four channels of amplification, I listened to just the front driver arrays. This effectively turns them into a pair of M100s. I’ve used this approach before and it still provides a full-range speaker with a super-wide soundstage."
http://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/...iers/nad-m32-direct-digital-amplifier-review/

From my read of Devialet's page, you would need two units, but they can be synchronized together. That is an expensive experiment!

 

[watchnerd]

From my read of Devialet's page, you would need two units, but they can be synchronized together. That is an expensive experiment!

Not if you already own the amps, anyway. Mine should be arriving soon.

 

[Vincent Kars]

Bryston offers and "active"speaker.
Needs an external active cross-over and 3 ch amp
http://www.bryston.com/products/active/Middle_T_Active.html

 

[watchnerd]

Bryston offers and "active"speaker.
Needs an external active cross-over and 3 ch amp
http://www.bryston.com/products/active/Middle_T_Active.html

I like the concept, but I can't see why I'd buy a speaker from Bryston vs somebody who has a history of making them, and especially if they make their own drivers.