Ciúnas DAC USB DAC Review

[SoundAndMotion]

Well, the results posted here and in the teardown thread are, to say the least, interesting and provocative.

Most of my possible responses have been covered by others already, but it is impossible for me not to note how many ad hominem attacks are produced and allowed. Any ad rem responses about the equipment would be fair game, and seem more in line with the type of group I’d hope to see here.

@amirm already noted his history with John Kenny in the teardown thread:

Note 1: the person behind ISO DAC is very active online and goes by the alias of jkeny (John Keny). He used to be a member here when I first started the forum and we banned him after a while. He and I have some history in the past, both with him being my defender and antagonist. So read what you like into my write-up here.

It almost seems unsportsmanlike to allow either ad rem or ad hominem attacks without openly offering John Kenny the ability to respond. I kind of doubt he would want to… an image of rolling on an ant hill after being sprayed with honey pops in my head…
It may be simple masochism, so he may choose not to.

I saw this, also in the other thread:

JK is aware of this thread. The lack of a response probably tells you the unit you have is the norm. Any maker who saw a unit that was altered and getting him bad PR would immediately want it known the unit was NOT representative.

… but I wonder how Dennis knows this! Has @Blumlein 88 read John saying he’s aware, or made direct contact? John is active on many forums; have all been checked? I read many forums, but have not seen a response from him. Did I miss one?

@amirm : be fair and offer him a chance to answer here. We can all judge based on the content (yours and his), measurements, photos, etc., without using the personal attacks as a poor substitute.

 

[mansr]

be fair and offer him a chance to answer here

There's a good chance his response will be as hilarious as the photos.

 

[Stellabagpuss]

Well, the results posted here and in the teardown thread are, to say the least, interesting and provocative.

Most of my possible responses have been covered by others already, but it is impossible for me not to note how many ad hominem attacks are produced and allowed. Any ad rem responses about the equipment would be fair game, and seem more in line with the type of group I’d hope to see here.

@amirm already noted his history with John Kenny in the teardown thread:


It almost seems unsportsmanlike to allow either ad rem or ad hominem attacks without openly offering John Kenny the ability to respond. I kind of doubt he would want to… an image of rolling on an ant hill after being sprayed with honey pops in my head…
It may be simple masochism, so he may choose not to.

I saw this, also in the other thread:

… but I wonder how Dennis knows this! Has @Blumlein 88 read John saying he’s aware, or made direct contact? John is active on many forums; have all been checked? I read many forums, but have not seen a response from him. Did I miss one?

@amirm : be fair and offer him a chance to answer here. We can all judge based on the content (yours and his), measurements, photos, etc., without using the personal attacks as a poor substitute.

I already mentioned the teardown thread, sadly any logical answers are met with cheap childish comments.
Logically asking JK to comment would be great, unfortunately it's seems there are alot of people on here that have yet to discover manners.

 

[Stellabagpuss]

If it has an internal battery for power, surely it doesn't need the mains adaptor in use?

@amirm Could you try testing it just on battery power alone?

Interesting point, however the current ISODAC is called a Supercap, and uses low noise caps instead of batteries

 

[audio_tony]

Interesting point, however the current ISODAC is called a Supercap, and uses low noise caps instead of batteries

In the opening paragraph of his review @amirm said;

"I believe the company has moved away from this specific unit which uses a battery to one that uses super-capacitors."

Does this mean he is incorrect in this case?

 

[Stellabagpuss]

Yes, JK has moved away from batteries some time ago.I am presuming is the Supercap version,as he supplies a psu for the powering of the unit.
The battery version, wasn't supplied with a'PSU

 

[Frank Dernie]

Logically asking JK to comment would be great

I have seen his comments on several forums over the years. He seemed unnecessarily aggressive. Far more so than any of the long term members of this forum I have seen.
I am sure that, should he want to, he can come here and make any point he wishes to, many other manufacturers do.
In fact this forum has more serious knowledgeable experts as members than all the others I am a member of put together.

 

[Kane1972]

I would guess as he is using roon, 2 separate USB cables out of computer, one to each DAC and (as he says) Roon allows you to group multiple outputs to play the same track.

Oh, that’s cool.

 

[SoundAndMotion]

I have seen his comments on several forums over the years. He seemed unnecessarily aggressive. Far more so than any of the long term members of this forum I have seen.
I am sure that, should he want to, he can come here and make any point he wishes to, many other manufacturers do.
In fact this forum has more serious knowledgeable experts as members than all the others I am a member of put together.

With all due respect, I've also read many of his posts. I've also responded to many. He has always been civil with me (of course, I was civil with him). Perhaps you consider the attacks on him in the teardown thread to be not aggressive. We'll just disagree on that.
I don't think it's up to you (but rather @amirm) to allow him to respond. He can't according to the rules; @amirm would have to make an exception, or repost an email from John. Realistically, I doubt John would want to.

 

[MediumRare]

I don't think it's up to you (but rather @amirm) to allow him to respond. He can't according to the rules; @amirm would have to make an exception, or repost an email from John.

What rules are you referring to?

 

[JJB70]

Anyone can register and post AFAIK. Amir clearly has different views to many members on some subjects such as MQA but has never to my knowledge censored debate or tried to mandate that we agree with his views.

The tear down showed shocking build quality, most DIY efforts would shame it. If you are going to charge several hundred dollars for a DAC when devices already include good, transparent DACs then you need to offer something to justify the existence of the product. That might be stellar measured performance, or outstanding industrial design and quality or it may be esoteric functionality etc. But it needs to offer something. If it is an appallingly badly made safety risk with no evidence of any thought having gone into the industrial design and less than impressive performance then it is entirely reasonable to question why the product should exist and how a vendor can sell such a product.

 

[BDWoody]

I don't think it's up to you (but rather @amirm) to allow him to respond. He can't according to the rules; @amirm would have to make an exception, or repost an email from John. Realistically, I doubt John would want to.

I didn't know there were rules against manufacturers replying in threads... We have several who have in fact...including the TotalDac...which was fun...
Where are you getting that?

 

[amirm]

I don't think it's up to you (but rather @amirm) to allow him to respond. He can't according to the rules; @amirm would have to make an exception, or repost an email from John. Realistically, I doubt John would want to.

He is encouraged and more than welcome to register under his company name as he has done elsewhere and respond.

 

[Frank Dernie]

With all due respect, I've also read many of his posts. I've also responded to many. He has always been civil with me (of course, I was civil with him). Perhaps you consider the attacks on him in the teardown thread to be not aggressive. We'll just disagree on that.
I don't think it's up to you (but rather @amirm) to allow him to respond. He can't according to the rules; @amirm would have to make an exception, or repost an email from John. Realistically, I doubt John would want to.

Nothing to stop him responding, loads of manufacturers have. Where did you get that idea from?

 

[KMN]

These spikes are generated when AC mains at 60 Hz is rectified

Along with the marketing bit about why there are smd film caps (and batteries? hahaha) instead of ceramics for power supply decoupling...it is all coming together for me now...lol This thing is apparently possibly feeding switch mode regulator output to the DAC's unfiltered. Is there at least a resistor, in series with the power rail, between the switcher output and this god mode decoupling network of batteries and smd film caps?

 

[SoundAndMotion]

Nothing to stop him responding, loads of manufacturers have. Where did you get that idea from?

@Frank Dernie @MediumRare @JJB70 @BDWoody : I just checked the rules, and I'm wrong. I don't see the usual prohibition of multiple accounts other forums have. John had an account and was banned, not for being a manufacturer, but for the aggressive back and forth he engaged in. I assumed (my bad) that he couldn't just create another account, without @amirm's explicit allowance...

He is encouraged and more than welcome to register under his company name as he has done elsewhere and respond.

... which he has now given. Thanks @amirm ! I still doubt he will.

 

[Tks]

Anyone else starting take pleasure in the surprise artistry of seeing graphs presented with shapes you've never seen before lol?

A few things about this...

1) The power switch looks like a simple Mytek switch with a color ring(or a knock off of one). You'll see this from enclosures on Raspberry Pi enclosures, to vaping mod devices.

2) Phillips head screws.. While nice for compatibility (since everyone has a screw driver), I'd much prefer hex screws for aesthetics, or something more flashy (but a pain in the ass) like the screws used for the THX 789. I also sure as heck don't want to see screws on the front facing portion of the device.

3) Statements made about the device are lies at worst, or negligent stupidity at best.

4) Jitter graph looks cool with it's unique shape, too bad it translates to inadequacy.

5) Intermodulation distortion graph be like: ESS Hump? Hold my beer..

6) That THD vs Frequency graph... The less said the better.

7) The statement that this device makes things more "interesting" to listen to again. I'd argue it's more interesting to see the pictures a test bench paints about it, rather than any sonic properties it is capable of at this point..

Come on man, and all that for 400 Euros+ ?

 

[Timola]

I've just read the review here by Amir. As an ISO-DAC owner and a big fan of this device, I was disappointed by what Amir found. I don't have any electronics background so I don't really know what the graphs show and how they may affect performance (perhaps the perfect customer for a device like this), but I was further disappointed that in the listening test, Amir was unable to find anything positive to say either.

As a fan of Ciunas, looking for any upside in the review, it was good to see the 'frequency response' was flat and that Amir found the device to be 'quiet' in one test, but then not so in further (I presume more detailed) tests. Since I can't hear anything above 13Khz I was happy that the filter artifacts were way over 22KHz.

As for the jitter found here, I hoped the unit would have been much better in this regard as in my listening I find the unit to be very engaging musically, and thought this was one of it's good attributes, especially since JK highlights this and then aims to isolate and re-clock the incoming USB data.

All I can say is that I listen to the ISO-DAC almost daily and as I've said before; IMO it's better sounding than the Audiolab MDAC and the Linn Akurate DSM. Admittedly, I didn't do the level matched easily switched input test that Amir has done here, and relied on my audio memory and 'feel' for what the sound difference was over extended listening sessions.

I bow to the greater knowledge and experience Amir has in HiFi and commend his review. But to anyone that is still curious and willing to spend some time having a listen at home in their own system, I would like to remind you that Ciunas will let you have the unit for upto 30 days to listen and return for a full refund if you don't like it, (bear in mind any subsequent home safety issue that Amir finds on this or the super capacitor version). It was sold to me on demonstration. If there is another vendor, who would loan a unit for home demo that you recommend to me to audition in the same ballpark cost (actually upto $2K), I'd be happy to give it a go. I like to keep an open mind and if another DAC can enhance my listening pleasure I'm all ears.

Thanks for the review Amir.

PS: the unit I have is a later version than reviewed here, the case has the Ciunas logo and the USB hub at the back (see the Ciunas website). I do expect that it is very similar to the unit tested here. The super-capacitor version is said to have a slightly better higher frequency presentation but I expect it's essentially the same design and sound. BTW: I've placed mine on a glass shelf away from anything nearby as a precaution (it's continuously 'on' and has been for months, (I can't feel any heat in the unit or the PSU both are not even warm to the touch).

 

[Stellabagpuss]

Yes, JK has moved away from batteries some time ago.I am presuming is the Supercap version,as he supplies a psu for the powering of the unit.
The battery version, wasn't supplied with a'PSU

 

[Stellabagpuss]

Sorry Correction, l believe this is the battery version