Chord DAVE Review (DAC & HP Amp)

[HuubFranssen]

Well boys and girls, that was my contribution to the Chord Dave saga. I notice some tension in my body and I’m afraid that this goes on and on and on and on. So to protect myself I return to my safe house. When I was too rude I’m sorry. Love y’all!

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

Well boys and girls, that was my contribution to the Chord Dave saga. I notice some tension in my body and I’m afraid that this goes on and on and on and on. So to protect myself I return to my safe house. When I was too rude I’m sorry. Love y’all!

Don't back up
Challenge yourself, you will feel relief once you go out of confusion circle of audiophile world.

 

[DavidEdwinAston]

So for weeks and weeks you listened to something you considered beautiful and after level matching you realised that the poorer sounding option was the same? You always listen to the same volume level? At night an when you want to hear a good live cd?

Ofcourse you chose the cheaper option.

But did it sound better after realising that or did you train yourself to listen to it? And did this event for ever stop you to try something else?

You have been on this site for four years, and yet you keep on pushing your subjective opinions against the facts. Why is that?
Surely we both know that your Dave, and my Qutest will be indistinguishable in properly matched tests?

 

[Geert]

You have been on this site for four years, and yet you keep on pushing your subjective opinions against the facts. Why is that?

Exactly, this whole discussion was history repeating. Topping being no 'high end', blind testing and level matching being unnecessary, ASR members burning down everything that's not Chinese, ASR members blindly following measurements. Just look at his post history. And now himself being surprised this discussion goes on and on...

 

[HuubFranssen]

You have been on this site for four years, and yet you keep on pushing your subjective opinions against the facts. Why is that?
Surely we both know that your Dave, and my Qutest will be indistinguishable in properly matched tests?

Well, the last one then.

I’m on this site because I love the content. Measurements are a part of what I consider interesting in this hobby, together with subjective reviews of sources I trust. And when objective an subjective reviews come to the same conclusion AND I like what I hear there is a perfect match. That’s why I have Neumann KH420’s. They are much too ugly and expensive to discover them myself so I’m very happy with them (my wife a littlebit less).

But sometimes objective and subjective opinions lead to confusion. And when I know what the most likely truth is I write something here. Like that time there was a topic about burning in of speakers. By coincidence I had ATC SCM19 speakers that had to be replaced because the finishing was not OK. It took 3 months before the new pair arrived. After replacing the 3-month old with the new ones I had to start all over again playing them in. That is an interesting observation and important enough to share here isn’t it?

And the Chord Dave thing is history. I think it is honest when in a topic like this there is also some cry from the other side of the wall. Just because there are a remarkable lot of people that love the sound of the most expensive Chord dac. And when you think the Qutest sounds the same you are a happy man.

 

[AudioSceptic]

Well until now no one mentioned the B word. For a normal consumer blind tests are not so easy but in the past I participated in several ABX tests. We never ever could prove any difference between anything. We compared amplifiers, cd-players, cables… One time I bought one of the 2 amplifiers we wanted to blind test myself so I could get used to the sound and let him warm up a little, the Sony TA-n271 (or something) was brand new, cheap, 180 euro. I could not get used to the lifeless sound so I was convinced that the 8000 euro competitor would be considered much better in the ABX. But no. When I got home after the ABX with my amplifier for a moment I thought I had a piece of cheap high end. After connecting the Sony everything fell back at his place. No high end, lifeless rubbish. I could sell him easily ofcourse, for years a lot of people on that forum believed that the Sony sounded like a 8000 euro amplifier.

How do you explain that? You, and the others in that ABX, could *not* hear a difference if you didn't know which you were listening to. Were the same speakers used in the ABX that you used at home?

 

[HuubFranssen]

Exactly, this whole discussion was history repeating. Topping being no 'high end', blind testing and level matching being unnecessary, ASR members burning down everything that's not Chinese, ASR members blindly following measurements. Just look at his post history. And now himself being surprised this discussion goes on and on...

Ah the wolves are going into my history. Hopefully you won’t find my history from school, pictures I have send or terrible things I have said in previous lives.

 

[Geert]

Ah the wolves are going into my history. Hopefully you won’t find my history from school, pictures I have send or terrible things I have said in previous lives.

There's something like memory, so I don't need to go into your history to know what you stand for. So your 'wolves' insult was totally uncalled for, but since you're on a roll I'll leave it at that.

 

[AudioSceptic]

While that is true, what is wrong with preferring a component that offers tactile or visual enjoyment? To me, design and craftsmanship are important. Personally, the design of the Chord line is not appealing to me, but I can totally accept it may do for others.
One thing I find funny on ASR is that those advocating double-blind testing sometimes are the ones that -looking at their signatures- "upgraded" from a DAC with a SINAD or 119dB to 121dB or such, which most certainly wasn't based on a rational decision or blind testing. I am not ashamed to say that I'll pick the better looking component (to me, and some features are key as well) every time, unless performance blatanly blows (which with reputable components -except possible speakers- is rather unusual these days).

I too like things that look "nice" and well-made. I like the carved-from-solid "engineered" look of the Dave. I think I would put that even above UI because I think we can quickly learn new ways of using equipment, no matter how eccentric. What I won't pay for is something so hugely overpriced as this. £2k would be more like it, not £10k!

 

[AudioSceptic]

Be careful there. As I noted in the review, Chord DAVE as is typical of some of their other products, has non-standard output voltages. In this case, both XLR and RCA are much higher in level than your topping and 90% of DACs I test. This will make the DAC sound much higher resolution as it is playing at higher volume level. Adjust the volume back down and any perceived audible difference will vanish. I know, because I have been victim of this countless times.

Above may be the key to a lot of success of DAC products, making theirs stand out in any ad-hoc AB test.

BTW, you don't have to run the comparison blind. Just match the outputs and then listen.

Don't we assume accurate level matching in any such test? You might be right about the last point in your case, but we know from behavioural science that double-blind testing is the only sure way to remove bias for most of us.

 

[BDWoody]

...I decided to sell the Topping stuff and try an RME ADI-2 FS dac. That did help, the RME seems to sounds a bit more natural (Amir will certainly admit that)...

I have both and hundred other DACs. None have such differing characteristics. Measurements reflect this and my countless comparisons show the same.

Apparently not.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Well, the last one then.

I’m on this site because I love the content. Measurements are a part of what I consider interesting in this hobby, together with subjective reviews of sources I trust. And when objective an subjective reviews come to the same conclusion AND I like what I hear there is a perfect match. That’s why I have Neumann KH420’s. They are much too ugly and expensive to discover them myself so I’m very happy with them (my wife a littlebit less).

But sometimes objective and subjective opinions lead to confusion. And when I know what the most likely truth is I write something here. Like that time there was a topic about burning in of speakers. By coincidence I had ATC SCM19 speakers that had to be replaced because the finishing was not OK. It took 3 months before the new pair arrived. After replacing the 3-month old with the new ones I had to start all over again playing them in. That is an interesting observation and important enough to share here isn’t it?

And the Chord Dave thing is history. I think it is honest when in a topic like this there is also some cry from the other side of the wall. Just because there are a remarkable lot of people that love the sound of the most expensive Chord dac. And when you think the Qutest sounds the same you are a happy man.

We know because you are fooling yourself as long as you test non-level matched and sighted, but of course everyone has the right to fool oneself, so you enjoy your fantasy bubble.

Your are just not fooling us without some smidge of a proof and no anecdotes are not facts, even if you made yourself believe that.

 

[HuubFranssen]

Apparently not.

 

[Purité Audio]

I would be tempted to get the DIM-1 digital module for the 420s.
Keith

 

[manisandher]

I notice some tension in my body and I’m afraid that this goes on and on and on and on. So to protect myself I return to my safe house.

Huub, you definitely don't want to allow any online discussion to affect your health. It's not worth it.

I believe you. You hear something in the DAVE that you like... for whatever reason. Good for you.

FWIW, I had a Mola Mola Tambaqui here on loan a short while ago. Just didn't like the way it sounded. Too 'polite' for my liking. Of course, it measures beautifully, so I must have been imaging things. Who cares? It didn't sound great to me... for whatever reason. And yet, I love the sound of my SMSL SU-10... for whatever reason .

Peace.

Mani.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Be careful there. As I noted in the review, Chord DAVE as is typical of some of their other products, has non-standard output voltages. In this case, both XLR and RCA are much higher in level than your topping and 90% of DACs I test. This will make the DAC sound much higher resolution as it is playing at higher volume level. Adjust the volume back down and any perceived audible difference will vanish. I know, because I have been victim of this countless times.

Above may be the key to a lot of success of DAC products, making theirs stand out in any ad-hoc AB test.

BTW, you don't have to run the comparison blind. Just match the outputs and then listen.

Very interesting. One wonders if Rob did that on purpose to achieve a “louder is better effect” and fool the customers into buying his product as most have never heard of level matching and are mainly “die hard trust your ears” people.

 

[HuubFranssen]

We know because you are fooling yourself as long as you test non-level matched and sighted, but of course everyone has the right to fool oneself, so you enjoy your fantasy bubble.

Your are just not fooling us without some smidge of a proof and no anecdotes are not facts, even if you made yourself believe that.

I’m just not someone who denies the complete evolution of humans; I think that we are more clever with hearing that you think. I’m not both technician and psycharatist. And I think that truth is floating somewhere, not on a place I can pinpoint like you think you can.

Some dacs sound exactly the same, some not. Some people hear differences and have the skills to doublecheck themselves, some not. Some companies build excellent gear and some not.

Trying to find the truth by using a limited set of quantifications is too simple for me. So I have to listen myself. It’s fun you should try it!

 

[AudioSceptic]

Very interesting. One wonders if Rob did that on purpose to achieve a “louder is better effect” and fool the customers into buying his product as most have never heard of level matching and are mainly “die hard trust your ears” people.

I really hope not. Mr Watts might have some odd ideas, but I would be very disappointed indeed if he (or John Franks) did something verging on dishonesty.

 

[ahofer]

Perhaps not, but being told one is a fool for buying, or insinuating that they did not actually buy and are just saying so to raise some B.S. It's useless and unnecessary -- basically rude and uncivil behavior. But that is the acceptable norm these days, I guess.

I am happy to read or engage in a polemic about audio, but I see no need in doing so to imply one is a fool or an idiot for making a particular purchase.

You can tell me you purchased a certain car for X amount of $, and I can contend with facts or opinion why you should have considered another car, but I'm not going to basically imply you're a fool for buying that car.

OK. I’ve had one person here do that, since I own Harbeth speakers (expensive with flat FR but uneven directivity) and continue to enjoy them. I put that person on ignore, but only after simply admitting that they didn’t meet ASR measurement standards. What I don’t do is claim that a) they have greater fidelity due to b) some immeasurable quality that all the objectivist dorks can’t here. They simply sound good in my apartment (and measure pretty well in-room), particularly after some LF EQ. I’m just listening for a good time, although I feel better about my purchases if they actually make an *audible* difference.

I’m not A FOOL, I have made many FOOLISH DECISIONS. That’s the difference everyone needs to keep in mind. Granted, it’s hard not to perform the transfer in one’s head.

A lot of the uncivil discourse arises from people not realizing that if they are on Audiogon, proudly waving the objectivist flag is tossing a turd in the community punch bowl, and vice versa. Getting all huffy because people at ASR don’t respect subjective decisions is a waste of time.

 

[HuubFranssen]

Huub, you definitely don't want to allow any online discussion to affect your health. It's not worth it.

I believe you. You hear something in the DAVE that you like... for whatever reason. Good for you.

FWIW, I had a Mola Mola Tambaqui here on loan a short while ago. Just didn't like the way it sounded. Too 'polite' for my liking. Of course, it measures beautifully, so I must have been imaging things. Who cares? It didn't sound great to me... for whatever reason. And yet, I love the sound of my SMSL SU-10... for whatever reason .

Peace.

Mani.

The Mola Mola too polite?? It should sound exactly the same as your SNSL.

Peace too.