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Can plants act as sound diffusers ?

theREALdotnet

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Phyllotactic diffuser? :)

1280px-Aloe_polyphylla_1.jpg


Perhaps it will function as a Holographic-vortex metasurface?

And it could double as a listening chair!
 

theREALdotnet

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The longer way for the sound is 3,6 meters so the 3,6 ms seems right.

But 3.6m additional travel for the sound would mean ~10ms delay. The 3.6ms delay shown in the plot comes from a reflection with ca. 1.2m extra travel.
 

anotherhobby

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An installation with living trees would be nice.

Like Ólafur Arnalds personal studio? They aren't live trees, but I assumed diffusing sound was the reason when I noticed full trees along his walls. I bet it works pretty well in addition to being very cool and beautiful to look at. I've thought about doing this myself ever since I saw this. It'd have to be the right room for it, but I love it.

olafur-arnalds_bic1195_by_art-bicnick.jpg
 

Berwhale

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Like Ólafur Arnalds personal studio? They aren't live trees, but I assumed diffusing sound was the reason when I noticed full trees along his walls. I bet it works pretty well in addition to being very cool and beautiful to look at. I've thought about doing this myself ever since I saw this. It'd have to be the right room for it, but I love it.

View attachment 263229

I think he decorated to go with Woven Song...

 

sarumbear

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Like Ólafur Arnalds personal studio? They aren't live trees, but I assumed diffusing sound was the reason when I noticed full trees along his walls. I bet it works pretty well in addition to being very cool and beautiful to look at. I've thought about doing this myself ever since I saw this. It'd have to be the right room for it, but I love it.

View attachment 263229
He should have read this piece.

 

Axo1989

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sarumbear

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Agree. I'm not sure part 2 (measuring the directional diffusion coefficient as opposed to the random-incidence scattering coefficient covered by part 1) of the ISO 17497 standard is released yet? Not something I've studied for a while though.
It has.

 
OP
bothu

bothu

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But 3.6m additional travel for the sound would mean ~10ms delay. The 3.6ms delay shown in the plot comes from a reflection with ca. 1.2m extra travel..

As I wrote in my post #12 the distance from speaker to mic. was 2,4 meters.
The total travel for the reflected sound was 3,6 meter.
The extra travel was 1,2 meter.

/ Bo Thunér
 

DonH56

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As an aside (or maybe not) I have not kept up with this thread but want to highlight the comments @sarumbear and @Axo1989 have made, which has bearing on my earlier post and requires some correction (to my post, not their comments).

Diffusion, acoustic or RF, is defined as distributing energy equally over frequency, which provides a "flat" sort of response. Scattering, such as plants might do, is more random and results in certain frequencies being emphasized or suppressed at any given listening (signal capturing) position. What you would really like is pure diffusion in a listening room rather than scattering, and that is why acoustic diffusors usually have very specific shapes and designs (e.g. QRD, PRN, etc.) to provide (relatively) broadband diffusion. Random scattering can help but may also hurt by emphasizing some sounds you don't want to hear. I would expect the difference to be somewhat subtle in practice, but you never know until you try.

It does make me wonder if the scattering by a plant would be more diffusive if there was a fan blowing at it to move the leaves around quasi-randomly...

Random (not diffused) thoughts - Don
 

gnarly

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I had a large studio/listening room, that was designed from the ground-up for audio. And then treated acoustically via measurement.
Wonderful sounding room.

But one think i looked forward to every year, was when we put a large dense 10ft christmas tree in it.
The best dang acoustic treatment I've ever heard.
Defintely diffused....seemed to absorb as well, although I never remeasured room RT60 to know for sure.

I now picture the perfect venue to be outside in a fairy-like grove of spruce tress .....

(All that said, I can't see how small plants would be of much, if any, benefit)
 

Dal1as

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This thread moved into semantics. a diffuser scatters sound by definition.

Good dispersion in audio inside a small room is based on theory.

Less than 1 % of the people in this forum have such sound treatment.

Many companies promise and offer products that scatter and absorb sound and they usually fall in to 2 categories. Absorbers and diffusers.

I don't remember anyone calling a piece of sound treatment a scatterer over the years.





.
 

sarumbear

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This thread moved into semantics. a diffuser scatters sound by definition.

Good dispersion in audio inside a small room is based on theory.

Less than 1 % of the people in this forum have such sound treatment.

Many companies promise and offer products that scatter and absorb sound and they usually fall in to 2 categories. Absorbers and diffusers.

I don't remember anyone calling a piece of sound treatment a scatterer over the years.





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Whether diffusion use is common is neither here nor there. If you thing the difference between diffusion and scatter is semantics you are not educated and are wrong, I’m afraid.

You also do not know what is available on the market.
 

Axo1989

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It has.


Thanks for that, I couldn't get ISO's search thing to return it (and my web search was returning something else).

This thread moved into semantics. a diffuser scatters sound by definition.

Good dispersion in audio inside a small room is based on theory.

Less than 1 % of the people in this forum have such sound treatment.

Many companies promise and offer products that scatter and absorb sound and they usually fall in to 2 categories. Absorbers and diffusers.

I don't remember anyone calling a piece of sound treatment a scatterer over the years.

Ok I did some subjects a while back but I'm not an acoustic engineer so my lay-person's version of the semantics is that we'd like a diffuse sound-field in our listening areas but that doesn't happen naturally in our smaller listing rooms so we give it a hand when we can by using incidental and engineered surfaces to scatter reflections. Scattering is a rough measure, diffusion requires directional uniformity, so you can think of it as well-engineered or high-quality scattering. A bit like the directivity index for speakers (in that we'd like that smooth, not bumpy). Obviously "diffusors" will do this more or less well as a function of their design and installation.

I'd guess "scatterer" is an unappealing marketing term, so it isn't generally used. The suggestion from Lyd & Akustkk per @sarumbear's post that we'd like to see measurement of diffusion, scattering and absorption (the latter where applicable) and that this should be done for single and multiple units as you'd install them (because lobing in certain designs) is useful and practical. I don't think it's too difficult to be aware of both terms.
 
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sarumbear

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I'd guess "scatterer" is an unappealing marketing term, so it isn't generally used. The suggestion from Lyd & Akustkk per @sarumbear's post that we'd like to see measurement of diffusion, scattering and absorption (the latter where applicable) and that this should be done for single and multiple units as you'd install them (because lobing in certain designs) is useful and practical. I don't think it's too difficult to be aware of both terms.
There’s nothing wrong with the term scatter. It’s not a marketing term either. It’s just different to diffusion. Diffusion is non directional, whereas scatter is. Diffusion doesn’t affect RT60, scatter has. Each has its uses.

If you have basic knowledge of physics you may understand the difference.
 

Axo1989

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There’s nothing wrong with the term scatter. It’s not a marketing term either. It’s just different to diffusion.

Agree. I'm reflecting on @Dal1as observation that "scatterer" isn't used as a product/category name, not implying it has no distinct technical meaning. The opposite in fact.

I thought you were from UK, but maybe got that wrong: is English a second language? Not intended as a criticism at all, you just use semantic logic more like a German or a Hollander perhaps?
 
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