Bluesound Node Review (Streamer)

[amirm]

My job as a technical reviewer is to take the cover off piece of audio equipment and show where it is weak. You can choose to buy it, or not. Separately, the hope is that manufacturer sees that performance shortcuts are now revealed and is costing them some sales, hopefully causing future products to perform better. If I gave a pass to everything regardless of performance, then there is no point in measuring them. We deserve better execution than what we see here.

 

[AudioSceptic]

Which OS do you suggest?

I use Volumio, but there are many others, as you probably know.

 

[AudioSceptic]

Measured SINAD is only 88 dB, less than the 96 dB of a 16-bit CD-quality recording. See the first post in this thread.

Quite so. 88 dB is less than 15 bits.

 

[PeteL]

Why would anyone play hi-res when the devices can't even reach the CD standard?

I'm not an advocate for high-res, I don't think it's necessary, but science and engineering wise, this argument is fallacious. First, typically, high res means a sample rate higher than CD quality, wether it's necessary or not, this device decodes it and converting a SINAD to bits (which is also far fetch IMO, a SNR to bits yes, SINAD to bits have no real meaning) tells us nothing about this fact. If there is a benefit, audible or not to high res, this device will give it to you. Now I assumed you wanted to talk about the CD word lengths, the 16 bits that can theoretically gives you a SINAD better as this. Yes maybe, but it's also fallacious, because even 24 bits recording will never use them all in the content. There is nothing you are loosing in term of DATA, whether your file is 16 or 24 bits. You get all the bits you just have in this case a noise floor "corresponding" to 18 bits, and some extra distortion that have no direct meaning relative to file format. Again, the "theoretical" benefit of keeping the 24 bits format on a final master is simply to avoid truncation error, extra dithering, digital manipulation, noise shaping on music that have been produced in 24 bits. That's it, nothing else, you don't need 24 bits because the data don't cover the 24 bits. This DAC will play these untouched files. Again I'm not saying there is an audible benefit, but this device can give you high res.

 

[AudioSceptic]

Again, if one hooks a good DAC via coax that limitation is removed.

Yes, if the other features still make it worth the money (Node plus DAC).

 

[MaxBuck]

My job as a technical reviewer is to take the cover off piece of audio equipment and show where it is weak. You can choose to buy it, or not. Separately, the hope is that manufacturer sees that performance shortcuts are now revealed and is costing them some sales, hopefully causing future products to perform better. If I gave a pass to everything regardless of performance, then there is no point in measuring them. We deserve better execution than what we see here.

With respect, I receive better execution from my Node, evidently, than you did.

1. The streamer works flawlessly and did right out of the box, no muss no fuss. That it didn't for you certainly raises potential concern for future buyers.
2. The subpar DAC is easily remedied, and probably will be in my system (accompanied by DSD to allow RC); and regardless the DAC isn't atrocious, merely mediocre.
3. The entire functionality of this device, which is substantial, costs $550. Adding another $100 to get excellent DAC seems unobjectionable to me (though obviously it won't to everyone).

The testing of this device really seems to have been testing only of the DAC function, correct? You appear to have tested about 1/5 of the total capability of the device, and passed judgment accordingly. Seems like criticizing a BMW in totality because it happens to have Kumho tires. Nonetheless, I appreciate your testing the functions you did!

 

[Ralph_Cramden]

On virtually every "audiophile" forum, you'll find folks who sneer at Sonos, yet love this thing because it can do "hi-rez". Clearly, it can't, without an external DAC. Looks like the joke's on them...

 

[restorer-john]

Nice paperweight.

I'd rather use a rock.

 

[amirm]

2. The subpar DAC is easily remedied, and probably will be in my system (accompanied by DSD to allow RC); and regardless the DAC isn't atrocious, merely mediocre.

Huh? What is that distinction? I have measured 250 products with DACs in them that perform better. I have created the red bucket precisely to point out a collection of devices that have poor engineering and this is one of them.

3. The entire functionality of this device, which is substantial, costs $550. Adding another $100 to get excellent DAC seems unobjectionable to me (though obviously it won't to everyone).

What? I am supposed to rate a device when you add another item to it??? So when testing an AVR, you want me to rate it independent of its amplifier just because you can hook one up externally?

The testing of this device really seems to have been testing only of the DAC function, correct? You appear to have tested about 1/5 of the total capability of the device, and passed judgment accordingly.

They forced this on me, not me. With no remote control or hard button, there is no way to change the functionality to do anything else but be a streaming DAC. For this kind of money, the remote should have been included.

If I give high rating to this box, what rating would I give to a device that had a superb DAC, and working functionality to test the rest of it???

 

[restorer-john]

and regardless the DAC isn't atrocious, merely mediocre.

In 1983, when the very first generation CD players were released, measured THD was way better than this box. 37 years later, this thing is giving figures up to four times worse on THD alone.

Perspective:

Tested results for 1st generation CD players, September 1983.
Note the Akai CD-D1 used twin 14 bit Philips TDA-1540 converters with an O/S digital filter- the first released machine to do so. Sold to OEMs in 1982.

 

[Golfx]

I do not know why we should give Lenbrook a pass for not ensuring an easy setup? Why limit functionality to lucky or patient customers? Why not prepare the machine to have a neat flawless first impression? I purchased one of their NAD class d amps CI 8-120. You can read my negative review on Crutchfield website. The instruction manual was written as if it was translated into English. No customer support phone number or email help was forth coming for errors encountered. It’s like there’s a built in detached arrogance from HQs “hey we’re NAD so if you can afford us buy us.” Well this is just another example of them messing with their past good reputation.

 

[chelgrian]

I'm guessing the Node has a more robust CPU than competitors. Are you aware of any testing of the coax output of the node for noise/distortion? is that even important?

It's based on an over a decade old ARM design (Cortex A9) then again you don't need much power for what it's supposed to be doing. What you do need is a competent design.

 

[MaxBuck]

Huh? What is that distinction? I have measured 250 products with DACs in them that perform better. I have created the red bucket precisely to point out a collection of devices that have poor engineering and this is one of them.


What? I am supposed to rate a device when you add another item to it??? So when testing an AVR, you want me to rate it independent of its amplifier just because you can hook one up externally?


They forced this on me, not me. With no remote control or hard button, there is no way to change the functionality to do anything else but be a streaming DAC. For this kind of money, the remote should have been included.

If I give high rating to this box, what rating would I give to a device that had a superb DAC, and working functionality to test the rest of it???

You didn't test the streaming function (not sure how one would do this, actually). You didn't test performance with digital out, only analog out.

I have no quarrel with your rating, and yet you seem to respond as though I do -- just chagrined that you made no attempt to test functions other than DAC. I understand your difficulties in getting the other functions to work, but I think most people encountering this kind of problem in testing would have waited to report results until they figured out what caused it. Instead you just punted on it and published a scathing condemnation of the device, which seems to me like judging harshly based only on a subset of what the device does. You're certainly entitled to do that, but I think I'm entitled to express my opinion also.

I love the site, amirm, but you are one hypersensitive-to-perceived-criticism cat.

Let me add that, if one is not a hobbyist or willing to play with some buggy software (Volumio's Android app is absolutely reviled by reviewers on the Play Store), Lenbrook (NAD/Bluesound) and Sonos are about the only games in town for US listeners. I've acknowledged that I have no interest in playing around with Pi devices or similar DIY solutions, and Yamaha appears to have abandoned the USA with its streaming solutions (apparently MusicCast is pretty user-friendly, like BluOS). So I understand everyone piling on to criticize the Node, and you're all entitled to think I'm a knucklehead for buying it, but I guess I need to just keep listening and enjoying what I have.

 

[Beershaun]

arg. Why is it so hard to have an affordable streaming endpoint+DAC with high SINAD and no compromises? Had high hopes they had picked a decent DAC and gone after Topping a bit. Seems like Rpi4+Topping E30 is still the benchmark for a streaming audio endpoint+dac with a 100+DB SINAD.

 

[chelgrian]

Again, if one hooks a good DAC via coax that limitation is removed.

In the market this thing is in they could have removed all the analogue outputs required an external DAC and sold it for more money than the current price tag and it still would have sold.

However since you can get better analogue performance out of a Yamaha WX-AD10 at 1/5 of the price the only reason to buy it is if you are already wedded to the blue sound ecosystem.

 

[AudioJester]

You didn't test the streaming function (not sure how one would do this, actually). You didn't test performance with digital out, only analog out.

I have no quarrel with your rating, and yet you seem to respond as though I do -- just chagrined that you made no attempt to test functions other than DAC. I understand your difficulties in getting the other functions to work, but I think most people encountering this kind of problem in testing would have waited to report results until they figured out what caused it. Instead you just punted on it and published a scathing condemnation of the device, which seems to me like judging harshly based only on a subset of what the device does. You're certainly entitled to do that, but I think I'm entitled to express my opinion also.

I love the site, amirm, but you are one hypersensitive-to-perceived-criticism cat.

Let me add that, if one is not a hobbyist or willing to play with some buggy software (Volumio's Android app is absolutely reviled by reviewers on the Play Store), Lenbrook (NAD/Bluesound) and Sonos are about the only games in town for US listeners. I've acknowledged that I have no interest in playing around with Pi devices or similar DIY solutions, and Yamaha appears to have abandoned the USA with its streaming solutions (apparently MusicCast is pretty user-friendly, like BluOS). So I understand everyone piling on to criticize the Node, and you're all entitled to think I'm a knucklehead for buying it, but I guess I need to just keep listening and enjoying what I have.

https://orchardaudio.com/pecanpi-streamer-1

 

[MaxBuck]

https://orchardaudio.com/pecanpi-streamer-1

Which would require either Volumio or Roon, so far as I can tell. And it has no WiFi built in. Looks like it might be a good solution aside from those quibbles, which may not trouble others. Still a lot of hobbyist stuff working there.

Bottom line: it still falls way short of plug-&-play. But Ayzenshtat is a smart guy and I like what he's doing over on the East Coast.

 

[MaxBuck]

you can get better analogue performance out of a Yamaha WX-AD10 at 1/5 of the price

You could if Yamaha were still selling them. They're not, at least not in the USA.

 

[Steve Dallas]

[Snip]

The testing of this device really seems to have been testing only of the DAC function, correct? You appear to have tested about 1/5 of the total capability of the device, and passed judgment accordingly. Seems like criticizing a BMW in totality because it happens to have Kumho tires. Nonetheless, I appreciate your testing the functions you did!

Amir usually leaves it to other reviewers to test all the subjective stuff.

A better analogy is that he is testing the drivetrain of that BMW to put all the bells and whistles into context.

 

[Steve Dallas]

a
How do you like the Modius?

It is quite excellent. Rock solid and sounds great. Just wish it had ASIO drivers available, but not a big deal.