Bluesound Node Review (Streamer)

[Timcognito]

I believe not all have Burr Brown tough, I believe after the original that I own (can't find what it was), and still it don't cause issues in firmware and software updates. I get what you say but it's not that black and white, most dac chips will not need reconfiguring the bulk of the software is about the micro controller. I agree it does make it simpler to keep the same architecture, but don't mean the old ones will stop working. But sure, there must be a reason.

I have a Node1 ($85 on Ebay) and it sounds great in garage/shop with my Dad's '79 Yamaha receiver and SpeakerLab speakers, and integrates with all my music sources and other gear throughout my house. Maybe we could give Blusound some credit for a least giving us a digital out for a better DAC but damn them for being so cheap and short sighted with their current implementation. But now my interest turns to this audibility of distortion stuff because It doesn't sound so bad to me, even if measures poorly in the eyes of some. What post or topic can I find out more on that?

 

[goofball]

From https://support1.bluesound.com/hc/e...-difference-between-DAC-in-BluSound-products-

Gen 1 apparently used Cirrus Logic of some flavor, and Gen 2 uses Burr Brown.

Here's an interesting engineering question: How much of Amir's measurements are measurements of the DAC chipset, vs the "extra stuff" that you need to make a working device? Would a mere chipset change be enough to restore the panther's head, or would the analog performance still be deficient in some way?

 

[PeteL]

I have a Node1 ($85 on Ebay) and it sounds great in garage/shop with my Dad's '79 Yamaha receiver and SpeakerLab speakers, and integrates with all my music sources and other gear throughout my house. Maybe we could give Blusound some credit for a least giving us a digital out for a better DAC but damn them for being so cheap and short sighted with their current implementation. But now my interest turns to this audibility of distortion stuff because It doesn't sound so bad to me, even if measures poorly in the eyes of some. What post or topic can I find out more on that?

Yes to me, the fact than this 8 years old product still receive all compatibility and firmware updates is something we should give credit to Bluesound. For the real life loss of fidelity, well It seams that we don't all agree, I'll leave it at that.

 

[PeteL]

From https://support1.bluesound.com/hc/e...-difference-between-DAC-in-BluSound-products-

Gen 1 apparently used Cirrus Logic of some flavor, and Gen 2 uses Burr Brown.

Here's an interesting engineering question: How much of Amir's measurements are measurements of the DAC chipset, vs the "extra stuff" that you need to make a working device? Would a mere chipset change be enough to restore the panther's head, or would the analog performance still be deficient in some way?

That is for sure an interesting engineering question. My guess is it's not only the chipset, it's a much more complicated design than a straight USB/SPDIF DAC. It doesn't mean it's impossible to do better. It would have helped if Amir would have been succesful in having the app working and had the optical in measured, but he ran into problems and Bluesound at least for this deserve some points taking off. It is I believe a bit pecky about network access and such, but just the first time. The troubleshooting steps should be clearer I guess.

 

[PeteL]

There's something I just noticed about my 1st gen one that I didn't like, last weekend a friend came over, he has a Node at home as well, and he connected to mine to play some Spotify playlists, It's all fair is good, but he was able to play music in my system even when he got back home. It's a quirk I don't like, I don't know yet if it's my firewall and security settings that are deficient, or if the Node player can bypass all that and get straight to the IP inside my LAN, but it's invasive. Maybe Amir had problems for a reason, It appears Bluesound like to have a lot of freedom when it comes to the network.

 

[OldJong]

Not sure I follow you Pete.

Spotify is streaming, right? Why couldn't he stream the same content?

Unless you are talking about your files that he may have copied to a usb stick maybe.

To connect, you need a wireless password and if files are shared then maybe....

 

[PeteL]

Not sure I follow you Pete.

Spotify is streaming, right? Why couldn't he stream the same content?

Unless you are talking about your files that he may have copied to a usb stick maybe.

To connect, you need a wireless password and if files are shared then maybe....

He was at his place, he opened his Spotify app, and he was still seeing my node as a client. He pressed play, his spotify I don't have spotify, and it was playing at my house, his music. His house is many miles away, he was not connected to my LAN anymore. But he did, with my password, a couple day prior to connect to my Node the first time.

 

[AudioSceptic]

He was at his place, he opened his Spotify app, and he was still seeing my node as a client. He pressed play, his spotify I don't have spotify, and it was playing at my house, his music. His house is many miles away, he was not connected to my LAN anymore. But he did, with my password, a couple day prior to connect to my Node the first time.

Did he tell you he was about to try this, or was he as surprised as you were when it worked?

Being able to access "smart" devices across the interwebs is nothing new of course, but isn't there always password protection, as with smart thermostats, smart switches, and IP cameras? Did you give your friend your password when he was at your place so he could access your Node locally?

Update: so he did have your password.

 

[PeteL]

Did he tell you he was about to try this, or was he as surprised as you were when it worked?

Being able to access "smart" devices across the interwebs is nothing new of course, but isn't there always password protection, as with smart thermostats, smart switches, and IP cameras? Did you give your friend your password when he was at your place so he could access your Node locally?

Update: so he did have your password.

Thanks, I mean just the regular wifi password, normally is phone need to see my router for this password to be usefull no? And he didn't retype it at his place, he just opened spotify and pressed play.

 

[Jimbob54]

He was at his place, he opened his Spotify app, and he was still seeing my node as a client. He pressed play, his spotify I don't have spotify, and it was playing at my house, his music. His house is many miles away, he was not connected to my LAN anymore. But he did, with my password, a couple day prior to connect to my Node the first time.

This , I believe, is a feature of Spotify connect . By playing from his Spotify account to a player on your network , it has added that device to his list of connect enabled devices .

 

[EB1000]

So if I understand correctly from the measurements results, when the Node is combined with a good external DAC and used as a Roon endpoint, performance is much better with 120dB+ SINAD? I still own the NAD C658 and considering upgrading it to miniDSP SHD + Node + external XLR bypass switch to retain Roon and BluOS functionality, as well as HT integration.

 

[AudioSceptic]

Thanks, I mean just the regular wifi password, normally is phone need to see my router for this password to be usefull no? And he didn't retype it at his place, he just opened spotify and pressed play.

If your wi-fi password is the only thing you gave him, then there is clearly a security issue here, as that is not relevant across the WAN. Is Spotify using a special port through your router?

 

[DWI]

And that is the point where we should be very very thankful to AMIRs work here, who is basically defending our interests against the industry.
So, comparing AMIR to a carpet salesman here, is very very inappropriate!

We basically get "fooled" by company marketing sales speech and by accommodating reviewers stating that they can hear that the DAC section is now improved. While, in fact AMIR could reveal the quiet low performance of the DAC.

Choose your own analogy - looking through the wrong end of the binoculars?

I don't buy this "defending our interests against the industry" stuff and I'm grown up enough to be able to filter marketing and reviews for what I want to know about products, just as I check measurements from time to time. I bought my Bluesound retail from Richer Sounds, if I didn't like it I could return it, but I used it for several years.

 

[PeteL]

If your wi-fi password is the only thing you gave him, then there is clearly a security issue here, as that is not relevant across the WAN. Is Spotify using a special port through your router?

That's what I'd like to figure out, I didn't like this "feature" Yes I know it's spotify connect.

 

[AudioSceptic]

That's what I'd like to figure out, I didn't like this "feature" Yes I know it's spotify connect.

It seems to be port 4070. Is this forwarded in your router? If so, disable that and see if you can still do what you want to do.

 

[amirm]

So if I understand correctly from the measurements results, when the Node is combined with a good external DAC and used as a Roon endpoint, performance is much better with 120dB+ SINAD?

That's correct. It may not need Roon either to do that assuming other services are capable of > 16 bit playback. Airplay for example can't.

 

[PeteL]

It seems to be port 4070. Is this forwarded in your router? If so, disable that and see if you can still do what you want to do.

Thanks, I'll dig into it when I have time

 

[goofball]

Not to beat a dead horse, but...here is a YouTube video from some audio salesman talking about the 2021 Bluesound Node and Powernode changes. He specifically covers the DAC changes starting at 3:00.

I'm skeptical of his claims..."balanced design", "113db SNR", etc. However, he does mention specifically the Burr Brown 5122 (what the Node 2i uses) and the 5242 (what the 2021 Node uses). Apparently the Powernode was already using this chip, and the Node was upgraded in 2021 to match it.

2021 Bluesound NODE & POWERNODE Upgrades

 

[AudioSceptic]

Not to beat a dead horse, but...here is a YouTube video from some audio salesman talking about the 2021 Bluesound Node and Powernode changes. He specifically covers the DAC changes starting at 3:00.

I'm skeptical of his claims..."balanced design", "113db SNR", etc. However, he does mention specifically the Burr Brown 5122 (what the Node 2i uses) and the 5242 (what the 2021 Node uses). Apparently the Powernode was already using this chip, and the Node was upgraded in 2021 to match it.

2021 Bluesound NODE & POWERNODE Upgrades

Just for reference, the PCM 5122 is what the $40 HifiBerry DAC+ Pro <https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...w-and-measurements-of-hifiberry-dac-pro.8555/> uses.

 

[goofball]

Just for reference, the PCM 5122 is what the $40 HifiBerry DAC+ Pro <https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...w-and-measurements-of-hifiberry-dac-pro.8555/> uses.

That hifiberry thing was recommended, yet the Bluesound Node was not.