Blacklisting Reviewers.

[Chrispy]

Some of us don't have the opportunity to audition due to the lack of distributors in our area. In my case I started watching Steve Gutenberg and bought several of his recommendations which I ended up throwing away. Fortunately I am older and can afford some mistakes but it pains me to think of people who short of money buy stuff based on dihonest information and are stuck with mediocre or plainly bad equipment and no money left.
Maybe a list of good honest reviewers would be easier to compile. Unfortunately ASR can not check everything...

Thanks for the clarification. Yes, Guttenberg is a bit of a loon as are most subjective type reviewers. Learn to read measurements is a better way to go than those guys, as said the good ones are a very short list. I go with ASR, Audioholics and Erin's Audio Corner primarily for combination of basic comments and measurements.

ps I've lived quite a distance away from "auditioning" opportunities for many years now. Best place to audition is your own room, tho.

 

[eddantes]

Well, that was a cogent case worthy of creating a thread. Thanks for dropping by.

And yet - here we are - 5 pages in... Like moths to a flame...

 

[Ivan.ruiz]

Dear Audiophiles:

I am surprised that this topic has generated controversy.
I am an immigrant impressed by the emphasis of the American culture on the truth. By the phrase "The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth".

I have been in several countries and in no other - that I have been to- there is such as an emphasis on that simple principle -being truthful- as in the United States.

The First Amendment protects your right to lie, however, it does not mean that all lies are protected. In case of fraud lying is not protected. Fraud is a criminal offense that involves using deceit or falsehoods to achieve financial or personal gain. Fraud entails the intentional misrepresentation of facts or concealment of information to deceive others. (FromChatGPT)

When somebody states that a piece of equipment is great knowing it to be a lie and not disclosing being payed to do it, is lying to achieve personal gain deceiving others and therefore fraud.

Blacklisting is probably a repugnant idea but Whitelisting may be acceptable.

So I vote for an easily accessible Whitelist of Bona Fide reviewers elected by the community of audiophiles.

And the Audiophile Darwin Award suggested above sounds great!

 

[kemmler3D]

So I vote for an easily accessible Whitelist of Bona Fide reviewers elected by the community of audiophiles.

Actually this was going to be my suggestion on page 1, but I figured the thread wasn't going to go anywhere.

Yes, a whitelist is a much simpler task than identifying every liar and delusional "expert" on the web.

Others have suggested the beginnings of said list, I think we can start with :

• Amir (obv)
• @VintageFlanker does a good job
• Erin's Audio Corner
• Stereophile (they publish reasonably good measurements, whatever you think of the subjective stuff)
• Crinacle (publishes measurements)
• RTINGS.com (also does measurements)
• Archimago

For the DIYers, Hificompass is a goldmine too.

I am not sure if I agree with the opinions of some of the above... but that's not really the point. You'll notice all of my "whitelist" reviewers do measurements. Go for the objective data first, decide what it means to you in terms of your preferences, consider others' opinions second, if at all.

 

[Timcognito]

Dear Audiophiles and Strivers like me, peace be unto you. Somebody wondered why I was not posting on this issue anymore so, first I didn't know I could, second after reading the responses:

I am glad that this topic has generated interest.
I am an immigrant impressed by the emphasis of the American culture on the truth. By the phrase "The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth".

I have been in several countries and in no other - that I have been to- there is such as an emphasis on that simple principle -being truthful- as in these United States. In most places you have to assume that you are being lied to and it is accepted as normal. The normalization of lying leads to poverty, stagnation and decay.

The First Amendment protects your right to lie, however, it does not mean that all lies are protected. There are legal boundaries, such as cases of fraud, perjury, and defamation, where lying is not protected and can lead to legal consequences. Fraud is a criminal offense that involves using deceit or falsehoods to achieve financial or personal gain. Typically, fraud entails someone intentionally misrepresenting facts or concealing information to deceive others. (FromChatGPT)

When somebody intentionally states that a piece of equipment is great knowing it to be a lie and not disclosing that he is being payed to do it, he is lying to achieve personal gain deceiving others and therefore committing fraud.

Who is being deceived? The newbie, the ignorant, the poor man that in wonder hears about Soundstage, Separation, and the need for $1,000.00 electrical cables necessary to experience the hidden pleasures of the Audiophiles.

Repugnant ideas are ok. I may have some. But normalizing lying is bad for everyone. Blacklisting is probably a repugnant idea but Whitelisting may not be so.

So I vote for an easily accessible Whitelist of Bona Fide reviewers elected by the community of audiophiles.

And the Audiophile Darwin Award suggested above sounds great!

Thanks for sticking with us no matter what was said. For the uninitiated, with thin skin, this place can be little overwhelming and usually not so much by what Amir says. He lets the numbers do the talking but he also can be agnostic about features and UI, in many cases those are the selling point for decent but not top of list tested device. Nothing is perfect but this site gives one many facts to go from in purchasing decision.

 

[Chrispy]

Dear Audiophiles and Strivers like me, peace be unto you. Somebody wondered why I was not posting on this issue anymore so, first I didn't know I could, second after reading the responses:

I am glad that this topic has generated interest.
I am an immigrant impressed by the emphasis of the American culture on the truth. By the phrase "The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth".

I have been in several countries and in no other - that I have been to- there is such as an emphasis on that simple principle -being truthful- as in these United States. In most places you have to assume that you are being lied to and it is accepted as normal. The normalization of lying leads to poverty, stagnation and decay.

The First Amendment protects your right to lie, however, it does not mean that all lies are protected. There are legal boundaries, such as cases of fraud, perjury, and defamation, where lying is not protected and can lead to legal consequences. Fraud is a criminal offense that involves using deceit or falsehoods to achieve financial or personal gain. Typically, fraud entails someone intentionally misrepresenting facts or concealing information to deceive others. (FromChatGPT)

When somebody intentionally states that a piece of equipment is great knowing it to be a lie and not disclosing that he is being payed to do it, he is lying to achieve personal gain deceiving others and therefore committing fraud.

Who is being deceived? The newbie, the ignorant, the poor man that in wonder hears about Soundstage, Separation, and the need for $1,000.00 electrical cables necessary to experience the hidden pleasures of the Audiophiles.

Repugnant ideas are ok. I may have some. But normalizing lying is bad for everyone. Blacklisting is probably a repugnant idea but Whitelisting may not be so.

So I vote for an easily accessible Whitelist of Bona Fide reviewers elected by the community of audiophiles.

And the Audiophile Darwin Award suggested above sounds great!

Unfortunately audiophilia hasn't taken the truth thing much to heart. Someone mentioned Stereophile which I find particularly bad as far as subjective reviews go.....here is a ridiculous product review, even with measurements. https://www.stereophile.com/content/wilson-loke-subwoofer

 

[kemmler3D]

Stereophile which I find particularly bad as far as subjective reviews go

Just skip to the graphs, ignore the words. Sometimes they publish the only independent measurements of something, and that's of great value... even if they sometimes insist on piling up a bunch of deep subjectivity around the graphs. In a world where subjective nonsesnse is the rule and not the exception, I will give full credit to anyone that actually measures something and publishes the results.

 

[GaryH]

• Crinacle (publishes measurements)

'Publishing measurements" means little if they're inaccurate.

 

[Chrispy]

Just skip to the graphs, ignore the words. Sometimes they publish the only independent measurements of something, and that's of great value... even if they sometimes insist on piling up a bunch of deep subjectivity around the graphs. In a world where subjective nonsesnse is the rule and not the exception, I will give full credit to anyone that actually measures something and publishes the results.

Yeah I do that with any review, while I do appreciate subjective comments on ergonomics/connectivity perhaps, I skip over the subjective "listening" experiences except perhaps with speakers.....

 

[HoweSound]

DIY Audio is a good source of information and the occasional review, especially for those who are speaker builders.

diyAudio

The diyAudio Community

www.diyaudio.com

 

[posvibes]

Jesse Pinkman is my go to guy for audio equipment reviews, so many lights, and "its got parametric equalizers and shit, so it always sounds the bomb".

 

[SIY]

DIY Audio is a good source of information

Be VERY selective, there's some major loons and fraudsters there along with a couple of reliable folks.

 

[Ivan.ruiz]

Same here, in my case I will be resetting and starting fresh now .. just downloaded the 2 charts on the DAC and AMP ratings which Amir publishes.
Currently figuring out how to read the specs with help of some books on digital audio and google, hopefully I will be able to learn and make the right decisions.

Could you please let me know where to find them? Im planning to buy a DAC. Thank You!

 

[Deleted member 21219]

Could you please let me know where to find them? Im planning to buy a DAC. Thank You!

It's possible that he means this page: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?pages/Reviews/

... which is accessed by the "review index" tab on the top left of the site page.

Jim

 

[audiosciencestudent]

Could you please let me know where to find them? Im planning to buy a DAC. Thank You!

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?pages/Reviews/

Attaching a list I grabbed from one of the reviews.

 

[Ron Texas]

Let these goofy reviewers post and the rest of us can call them out. Otherwise this place would get too boring.

 

[theREALdotnet]

Because we're dealing with an industry that is feeding on ignorance, and does everything in its power to keep it that way.

That’s the hallmark of capitalism. I couldn’t name a single industry that isn’t like that. It’s because profit – the ultimate, overriding and absolute criterion of success – demands it. Rational (i.e. based on reason) consumption and production have no place in this socio-economic system of ours.

 

[Ron Texas]

That’s the hallmark of capitalism. I couldn’t name a single industry that isn’t like that. It’s because profit – the ultimate, overriding and absolute criterion of success – demands it. Rational (i.e. based on reason) consumption and production have no place in this socio-economic system of ours.

Who gets to decide what is rational? Is this hobby rational within your system of beliefs?

 

[Norcal]

I feel like the concept of 'honesty' in subjective reviews (particularly speaker reviews) is overblown. Whether the reviewer is honest or not, the chances that their experience is translatable to you is probably about the same either way. That's why data is so important - without it, there's no real frame of reference. That frame of reference is what allows experiences to be translated from one person to another.

So subjective reviews without data are discountable as a general rule (honest or dishonest notwithstanding). They may be entertaining, or helpful for learning about how a product works, but that's about it.

 

[Ivan.ruiz]

That’s the hallmark of capitalism. I couldn’t name a single industry that isn’t like that. It’s because profit – the ultimate, overriding and absolute criterion of success – demands it. Rational (i.e. based on reason) consumption and production have no place in this socio-economic system of ours.

My friend, good day.
There is one. In the oil business, Demulsifiers are used to separate the water that is produced along with the oil. When a good product is applied the oil gives up the water in a short period of time, when the product is bad the oil will not release the water and there is no dining, bribing o cajoling that will make it to do so, oil is incorruptible. So it either works or doesn't. There the charlatans are separated from the proffessionals.