Beta Test: Multitone Loopback Analyzer software

[Sokel]

Your highest harmonics

View attachment 229923

look a lot like my left channel spikes (Caused by the improper traces and component locations on the PCB):

My right channel is a lot cleaner there.

You said earlier that you tried with the right input channel of the E-MU too, but are you sure that you have two identical channels?

Please try Khadas (Right) -> E-MU (Right) again if you have time...

Her you go.
Spikes are Khadas's,left channel of EMU is completely clean of spikes on it's own.
R channel on the other hand has noise.

 

[Sokel]

There is no way that MT can cause ASIO to route through the Windows volume control, unless the output is somehow going to the WASAPI or DS driver, instead.

Yet it does.(not MT obviously)
And Khadas's driver is one of the most commonly used,XMOS208.
Let me restart everything and I'll get back.

 

[Rantapossu]

Her you go.
Spikes are Khadas's,left channel of EMU is completely clean of spikes on it's own.
R channel on the other hand has noise.

I guess then that the engineers at the E-MU factory couldn't make two identical channels to the same device even by accident...

Oh well, we both know what channel to use...

 

[pkane]

Yet it does.(not MT obviously)
And Khadas's driver is one of the most commonly used,XMOS208.
Let me restart everything and I'll get back.

Unless the driver or the board implement their own volume control tied to Windows one on top of ASIO protocol, I can't imagine how this might even work. Generally, ASIO is a direct protocol to pass data to the audio card, unchanged by Windows.

 

[Sokel]

I guess then that the engineers at the E-MU factory couldn't make two identical channels to the same device even by accident...

Oh well, we both know what channel to use...

Yep,R has better THD but awful noise.
If only I could combine the best of each.

 

[edechamps]

Unless the driver or the board implement their own volume control tied to Windows one on top of ASIO protocol, I can't imagine how this might even work. Generally, ASIO is a direct protocol to pass data to the audio card, unchanged by Windows.

I can easily imagine how the Windows volume control could affect even a "pure" ASIO stream. With most devices, the Windows volume control is not implemented in software - instead it acts on whatever hardware gain control the device advertises. It's not unreasonable to think that this hardware volume control could "accidentally" apply to ASIO streams as well. The software path might be different, but the hardware path is the same.

It would make sense for manufacturers to force that hardware volume control to 100% when ASIO is used, but that doesn't mean they all do.

 

[Rantapossu]

We didn't get a third guess about the contents of the mystery package, but here is the next teaser:

Cosmos it is!

But is it ADC or APU? That's the question...

Which one would you like to have, if you don't already own one? Or neither of them or both?

Do you think you have a good enough DAC that you could justify to yourself that you need both ADC and APU to be able to match it?

 

[Sokel]

I can easily imagine how the Windows volume control could affect even a "pure" ASIO stream. With most devices, the Windows volume control is not implemented in software - instead it acts on whatever hardware gain control the device advertises. It's not unreasonable to think that this hardware volume control could "accidentally" apply to ASIO streams as well. The software path might be different, but the hardware path is the same.

It would make sense for manufacturers to force that hardware volume control to 100% when ASIO is used, but that doesn't mean they all do.

This one applies everywhere,just tested it with Foobar and ASIO,ASIO+DSD,even exclusive.
Applies everywhere and the only time that disappears is when playing DSD.
At least it doesn't allow other sounds to pass-through.Not that I ever had the same device as default and playing music with,but still...

 

[Sokel]

We didn't get a third guess about the contents of the mystery package, but here is the next teaser:

View attachment 229941

Cosmos it is!

But is it ADC or APU? That's the question...

Which one would you like to have, if you don't already own one? Or neither of them or both?

Do you think you have a good enough DAC that you could justify to yourself that you need both ADC and APU to be able to match it?

ADC,and yes,both please.

 

[pkane]

I can easily imagine how the Windows volume control could affect even a "pure" ASIO stream. With most devices, the Windows volume control is not implemented in software - instead it acts on whatever hardware gain control the device advertises. It's not unreasonable to think that this hardware volume control could "accidentally" apply to ASIO streams as well. The software path might be different, but the hardware path is the same.

It would make sense for manufacturers to force that hardware volume control to 100% when ASIO is used, but that doesn't mean they all do.

Yep, that’s what I meant when I said the driver or the card must do this. There’s no way for Multitone to do this.

 

[Sokel]

We didn't get a third guess about the contents of the mystery package, but here is the next teaser:

View attachment 229941

Cosmos it is!

But is it ADC or APU? That's the question...

Which one would you like to have, if you don't already own one? Or neither of them or both?

Do you think you have a good enough DAC that you could justify to yourself that you need both ADC and APU to be able to match it?

Now that you start spending maybe you want to buy my CLEAN L channel

(I'm jealous of Cosmos,don't mind me )

 

[pkane]

We didn't get a third guess about the contents of the mystery package, but here is the next teaser:

View attachment 229941

Cosmos it is!

But is it ADC or APU? That's the question...

Which one would you like to have, if you don't already own one? Or neither of them or both?

Do you think you have a good enough DAC that you could justify to yourself that you need both ADC and APU to be able to match it?

It's an APU But I do have both...

 

[Rantapossu]

It's an APU But I do have both...

It might be, it might be...

 

[Sokel]

No more windows volume in foobar (it's the only thing I forgot with the 2.0 version)

 

[Rantapossu]

No more windows volume in foobar (it's the only thing I forgot with the 2.0 version)

E-MU 0404 has a little quirk:

The normal Windows "Speaker" output volume slider affects to the ASIO volume:

And the measurement is done with the Toslink output and not with the Speaker output!

You can even disable the device at volume "9":

And it still does it's trick:

How on Earth this can go through all the development states to the production and never ever got corrected by the drivers? Oh, now I remember! This device is created by the same engineers who can't design two identical channels for the device even by accident!

 

[Sokel]

That's mine at 9 volume (at the win slider)

and at 1 volume (spikes must be the air-conditioner,has seen it leaking before up there)

Disabling it it doesn't measure.
No digital ins and output for me,Emu for the poor
(but has traveled around the world,faithful companion )

 

[Rantapossu]

That's mine at 9 volume (at the win slider)

I had set lower gains in MT (-40 dBFS or something like that) because I was measuring multitone signals just before and I didn't change the gain back to 0 when posting the above quirk post, because I was just proving the point of the affect of the slider. When I tested volume slider "9" thing later with the full gain in MT, TD+N was at the same ballbark as your's, 70's or low 80's, but I didn't take any screen captures.

But a strange behaviour nevertheless!

 

[Sokel]

I had set lower gains in MT (-40 dBFS or something like that) because I was measuring multitone signals just before and I didn't change the gain back to 0 when posting the above quirk post, because I was just proving the point of the affect of the slider. When I tested volume slider "9" thing later with the full gain in MT, TD+N was at the same ballbark as your's, 70's or low 80's, but I didn't take any screen captures.

But a strange behaviour nevertheless!

I just remembered I have soldered a litlle oscon cap right on the back of the first smd cap after the USB connector after the suggestion of a crazy Diyer friend I have,some 5-6 years ago.
I didn't measured stuff back then,I don't know if it was for bad or good.Noise seems good though if you consider that is hooked up on a noisy PC full of stuff.

 

[Rantapossu]

Time to reveal the content of my mystery mail package. It's no longer a secret after my previous 1 kHz notch filter posting...

Yes, APU it is:

It really pumps more performance out of the 20-year-old E-MU...

Here's the performance of my Topping E30, measured by the APU/E-MU -combo:

I even managed to best the Amir's measurement by a healthy 2 dB...

vs.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Time to reveal the content of my mystery mail package. It's no longer a secret after my previous 1 kHz notch filter posting...

Yes, APU it is:

View attachment 230055

It really pumps more performance out of the 20-year-old E-MU...

Here's the performance of my Topping E30, measured by the APU/E-MU -combo:

View attachment 230057


I even managed to best the Amir's measurement by a healthy 2 dB...

View attachment 230058

vs.

View attachment 230056

So this is using the APU notch and MT notch?