Best three-way (or 2.1) monitor for small studio below USD/EUR 4.000

[BerryJ]

Hi all, new here! Based on what I can see of the forum, I think I came to the right place

I recently got the Adam A7V's. I am very happy with them, but (as I could have known beforehand since it's a two-way 7 inch monitor) the low end is just not enough for me. The drop after 50Hz is so steep that I am not able to make mix decisions below that. I want to upgrade my system to something that is able to give me 10Hz more down there. The problem is that my studio is relatively small - it's 3,3 meter long and 2,7 meter wide (11 x 9 ft). My studio is well treated, also with GIK bass traps. I have looked into a lot of options but I keep going back and forth. I am a music producer and mix most of my own productions. All kinds of music, mostly nu-funk, disco, house and hiphop.

Since my studio is relatively small, I am somewhat bound to a listening distance of around 1,2 meter (4 ft). I could stretch that a little, but not a lot. Most three-way monitors are marketed as midfields, and probably need more distance than that to reach their potential. They can also be quite wide, and may cause horizontal issues in a small room. On the other hand, my room is so small that a sub would get me into all kinds of acoustical problems. Getting a bit more low end is not worth getting into an acoustical mess of course.

I seem to like the character of the ribbon-tweeter monitors I have listened to (the HEDD's, Adam's and Eve's - initially chose the A7V over the HEDD Type 07 mk2 because of the smoother high end imo). I also prefer bass ports to be on the front to be able to place my monitors against the front wall. So at the moment I am looking at the Adam A77H and A8H, as well as the HEDD Type 20 mk2. What would the minimum listening distance be for those? The Barefoot Footprint 02 also looks interesting because of its extended low end and small size. I could also just get the Adam Sub 8 and get it over with. Or a larger two-way. Or just accept the fact that I will have to judge the low end with my headphones...

To conclude my long rant: what would you guys recommend me to do in my situation? Do any of you have experience with the monitors I mention in small studios? Or am I missing a great monitor that I should look into?

Any thoughts are very much appreciated. Thank you!

 

[julian_hughes]

Nobody can see it. Stop taking the pills. They don't work.

 

[BerryJ]

Can you see my message now?

 

[dfuller]

KH310s are a no brainer, though the Type 20s are worth a look as well.

 

[teashea]

Hi all, new here! Based on what I can see of the forum, I think I came to the right place

I recently got the Adam A7V's. I am very happy with them, but (as I could have known beforehand since it's a two-way 7 inch monitor) the low end is just not enough for me. The drop after 50Hz is so steep that I am not able to make mix decisions below that. I want to upgrade my system to something that is able to give me 10Hz more down there. The problem is that my studio is relatively small - it's 3,3 meter long and 2,7 meter wide (11 x 9 ft). My studio is well treated, also with GIK bass traps. I have looked into a lot of options but I keep going back and forth. I am a music producer and mix most of my own productions. All kinds of music, mostly nu-funk, disco, house and hiphop.

Since my studio is relatively small, I am somewhat bound to a listening distance of around 1,2 meter (4 ft). I could stretch that a little, but not a lot. Most three-way monitors are marketed as midfields, and probably need more distance than that to reach their potential. They can also be quite wide, and may cause horizontal issues in a small room. On the other hand, my room is so small that a sub would get me into all kinds of acoustical problems. Getting a bit more low end is not worth getting into an acoustical mess of course.

I seem to like the character of the ribbon-tweeter monitors I have listened to (the HEDD's, Adam's and Eve's - initially chose the A7V over the HEDD Type 07 mk2 because of the smoother high end imo). I also prefer bass ports to be on the front to be able to place my monitors against the front wall. So at the moment I am looking at the Adam A77H and A8H, as well as the HEDD Type 20 mk2. What would the minimum listening distance be for those? The Barefoot Footprint 02 also looks interesting because of its extended low end and small size. I could also just get the Adam Sub 8 and get it over with. Or a larger two-way. Or just accept the fact that I will have to judge the low end with my headphones...

To conclude my long rant: what would you guys recommend me to do in my situation? Do any of you have experience with the monitors I mention in small studios? Or am I missing a great monitor that I should look into?

Any thoughts are very much appreciated. Thank you!

I use nearfield monitors in my studio. For me they work better than midfields. You can see from the photo the placement. Last year and this year I purhased three new sets of monitors. For me Neumann's are the best solution. Their sound is very uncolored, which is of primary importance to me. I can recommend your consideration of either KH120's, KH310's or the brand new KH150's. There is a lot of information here at ASR regarding them.

 

[dshreter]

Have you thought about adding a subwoofer (or two) instead of replacing the monitors? This would be more cost effective and probably yield better overall performance than trying to achieve lower bass via monitors.

 

[AnalogSteph]

On the other hand, my room is so small that a sub would get me into all kinds of acoustical problems.

Then buy two.

I don't see how much more trouble you could get into than what you have now. The A7Vs should be going deep enough to be exciting all the relevant modes as-is. Well, the vertical may still be an issue, but nobody said you have to place subs directly on the floor.

1.2 m should not be an unduly low distance for any of the usual mid-sized 3-ways, in fact it's likely to be quite typical still. With their small mid/tweeter spacing, most of them should integrate well to very low distances, although hiss levels can be an issue (not for the KH310 though, which is one of the quietest on the market).

 

[BerryJ]

Thanks all! I guess I have to look at the Neumanns, and especially at the KH310. I will try to find a store near me to take a listen tomorrow. I'm very curious how they compare agains the HEDD's and Adam's, since I seem to like monitors that have a slightly 'present' top end. The Neumanns seem technically almost perfect and getting insane reviews, hope they also sound engaging. How would you guys describe the difference between the HEDD's and the Neumanns?

 

[BerryJ]

Then buy two.

I don't see how much more trouble you could get into than what you have now. The A7Vs should be going deep enough to be exciting all the relevant modes as-is. Well, the vertical may still be an issue, but nobody said you have to place subs directly on the floor.

1.2 m should not be an unduly low distance for any of the usual mid-sized 3-ways, in fact it's likely to be quite typical still. With their small mid/tweeter spacing, most of them should integrate well to very low distances, although hiss levels can be an issue (not for the KH310 though, which is one of the quietest on the market).

So would you advise to go with subs or with 3-ways? I have been warned so much for subs in a small room (also by my acoustics guy) they kind of scare me haha.. Like dshreter said, it would be more cost effective. The KH310's are really at the max of my budget.

 

[BerryJ]

I use nearfield monitors in my studio. For me they work better than midfields. You can see from the photo the placement. Last year and this year I purhased three new sets of monitors. For me Neumann's are the best solution. Their sound is very uncolored, which is of primary importance to me. I can recommend your consideration of either KH120's, KH310's or the brand new KH150's. There is a lot of information here at ASR regarding them. View attachment 257010

Man your room looks like a Neumann commercial... Awesome. Your desk is just a tiny bit too full though. Just two too many. Let me help you with that...

 

[Kervel]

Get a small sub, use a measuring microphone to determine best location and then apply DSP.

 

[Knightfal]

If you like the AMT tweeter and want lows, compact design as well 3-way then check these out :

Fluid Audio Image 2 - 3-way Reference Studio Monitor NEW

Image 2 Reference Studio Monitor - Class D Quad-Amplified (x2 225w/150w/75w) x2 8" subs, 5" mid, and AMT tweeter w/ freq. resp from 28Hz to 30KHz in a closed cabinet design

fluidaudio.com

Not sure where you are located, but as i know they will arrive in US mid Feb and Europe beginning of Feb.

 

[Ellebob]

Acoustically, in small home sized rooms the best location to place the bass is rarely, if ever the best place for mids and highs. So there are a ton of advantages to using a sub. Here are the downsides.

1. They can be more difficult to integrate, crossover, phase, levels need to be set correctly for seamless integration.
2. The locations of speakers, sub, and seat are not always practical depending on one's situation.

If you can overcome #2 it is definitely worth the time to set up a 2.1 system instead of going to 2.0 with larger speakers.

 

[teashea]

Man your room looks like a Neumann commercial... Awesome. Your desk is just a tiny bit too full though. Just two too many. Let me help you with that...

I appreciate the offer but I hate to impose on your kindness.

 

[teashea]

Thanks all! I guess I have to look at the Neumanns, and especially at the KH310. I will try to find a store near me to take a listen tomorrow. I'm very curious how they compare agains the HEDD's and Adam's, since I seem to like monitors that have a slightly 'present' top end. The Neumanns seem technically almost perfect and getting insane reviews, hope they also sound engaging. How would you guys describe the difference between the HEDD's and the Neumanns?

Something you might want to consider: The purpose of monitors is not to sound engaging. Far from it. The job of excellent monitors is to sound flat and colorless. It is the music that should sound engaging. In order to hear the truth of what the music actually is, monitors need to be flat and to not color the sound in any way.

This is quite different that pleasure listening speakers. Pleasure listening speakers are often designed to sound engaging, with colored sound. That is why monitors are properly referred to as monitors, rather than as speakers.

You will find no high end sparkle in Neumann monitors. They are carefully designed and manufactured to avoid any high end emphasis. Indeed they are designed to have a very flat frequency response at all frequencies.

If you want pleasure listening speakers, don't even bother listening to Neumann monitors. They are not what you want. But if you want to allow the music to come to you as it was recorded, then Neumann monitors will do that.

Take a look at the topics here on ASR where Amir has tested Neumann monitors. You will find they all have very flat frequency response curves - and very little distortion (which can also color the sound).

 

[dshreter]

Something you might want to consider: The purpose of monitors is not to sound engaging. Far from it. The job of excellent monitors is to sound flat and colorless. It is the music that should sound engaging. In order to hear the truth of what the music actually is, monitors need to be flat and to not color the sound in any way.

This is quite different that pleasure listening speakers. Pleasure listening speakers are often designed to sound engaging, with colored sound. That is why monitors are properly referred to as monitors, rather than as speakers.

You will find no high end sparkle in Neumann monitors. They are carefully designed and manufactured to avoid any high end emphasis. Indeed they are designed to have a very flat frequency response at all frequencies.

If you want pleasure listening speakers, don't even bother listening to Neumann monitors. They are not what you want. But if you want to allow the music to come to you as it was recorded, then Neumann monitors will do that.

Take a look at the topics here on ASR where Amir has tested Neumann monitors. You will find they all have very flat frequency response curves - and very little distortion (which can also color the sound).

Hard disagree, it is a myth that monitors sound boring. Sure they are designed to be neutral, but there isn’t some special attribute that makes a speaker sound exciting that monitors don’t possess. That belongs to the music, and a neutral speaker is most effective at passing along what the recording intended.

If one wants to turn up the bass or EQ in some loudness, they can do so just fine with monitors.

 

[BerryJ]

Something you might want to consider: The purpose of monitors is not to sound engaging. Far from it. The job of excellent monitors is to sound flat and colorless. It is the music that should sound engaging. In order to hear the truth of what the music actually is, monitors need to be flat and to not color the sound in any way.

This is quite different that pleasure listening speakers. Pleasure listening speakers are often designed to sound engaging, with colored sound. That is why monitors are properly referred to as monitors, rather than as speakers.

You will find no high end sparkle in Neumann monitors. They are carefully designed and manufactured to avoid any high end emphasis. Indeed they are designed to have a very flat frequency response at all frequencies.

If you want pleasure listening speakers, don't even bother listening to Neumann monitors. They are not what you want. But if you want to allow the music to come to you as it was recorded, then Neumann monitors will do that.

Take a look at the topics here on ASR where Amir has tested Neumann monitors. You will find they all have very flat frequency response curves - and very little distortion (which can also color the sound).

I fully agree and am aware of the fact that monitors should sound flat. But when I listened to some (known for their flatness) monitors the other day, some really well known and greatly mixed/mastered pop songs just sounded off on some monitors. Like the high end was just too detailed, too fatiguing. For instance, it made different elements in a snare/clap/hi hat/perc layering, that were clearly intended as to sound as a 'whole' sound loose and piercing. Could be the room though! I sort of caught myself thinking that if a certain monitor made tracks I know very well (and I love very much in all kinds of listening environments and I know are mixed and mastered by the best in the game) sound bad, than I probably should not go for those monitors. Especially since I am not a mastering engineer for instance (luckily other people do that for me), I am mainly a producer who wants to be inspired to som extent while working first and foremost. But getting super neutral monitors will certainly benefit the end product, so of course I am still aiming for that. It's an interesting ongoing discussion in my head.

That said, I listened to the Neumann KH310 today. And now I want the Neumann KH310. Shit. Just wonderful, clean, precise, flat. Was impressed by the bass response too. And that was even without a well treated room.

Some forumscanning later, I feel like the KH150 might be even better for me. Also great reviews everywhere, and no noticeable downgrade to the KH310 as far as I can tell (right?). The two way design and smaller design might be better for my small room. And the low end extension is insane for a 6,5 woofer. I mean, it is just crazy how they owned every other brand in that respect.

The price is EUR 1600 here. If I'm spending that kind of money, it's basically the same as the HEDD Type 20 Mk2 and the KH310. What do you think of those three compared in a relatively small room (the KH150, KH310 and the HEDD Type 20 mk2)? Also waiting for Amir to do some reviews on the Adam A7V, A77H and A8H. Really curious how those would compare, but they will not be as flat as the Neumann's. They seem to be in a different league in that respect.

 

[Pearljam5000]

I fully agree and am aware of the fact that monitors should sound flat. But when I listened to some (known for their flatness) monitors the other day, some really well known and greatly mixed/mastered pop songs just sounded off on some monitors. Like the high end was just too detailed, too fatiguing. For instance, it made different elements in a snare/clap/hi hat/perc layering, that were clearly intended as to sound as a 'whole' sound loose and piercing. Could be the room though! I sort of caught myself thinking that if a certain monitor made tracks I know very well (and I love very much in all kinds of listening environments and I know are mixed and mastered by the best in the game) sound bad, than I probably should not go for those monitors. Especially since I am not a mastering engineer for instance (luckily other people do that for me), I am mainly a producer who wants to be inspired to som extent while working first and foremost. But getting super neutral monitors will certainly benefit the end product, so of course I am still aiming for that. It's an interesting ongoing discussion in my head.

That said, I listened to the Neumann KH310 today. And now I want the Neumann KH310. Shit. Just wonderful, clean, precise, flat. Was impressed by the bass response too. And that was even without a well treated room.

Some forumscanning later, I feel like the KH150 might be even better for me. Also great reviews everywhere, and no noticeable downgrade to the KH310 as far as I can tell (right?). The two way design and smaller design might be better for my small room. And the low end extension is insane for a 6,5 woofer. I mean, it is just crazy how they owned every other brand in that respect.

The price is EUR 1600 here. If I'm spending that kind of money, it's basically the same as the HEDD Type 20 Mk2 and the KH310. What do you think of those three compared in a relatively small room (the KH150, KH310 and the HEDD Type 20 mk2)? Also waiting for Amir to do some reviews on the Adam A7V, A77H and A8H. Really curious how those would compare, but they will not be as flat as the Neumann's. They seem to be in a different league in that respect.

Are you referring to Genelec in the first part of your comment?

 

[Pearljam5000]

Hard disagree, it is a myth that monitors sound boring. Sure they are designed to be neutral, but there isn’t some special attribute that makes a speaker sound exciting that monitors don’t possess. That belongs to the music, and a neutral speaker is most effective at passing along what the recording intended.

If one wants to turn up the bass or EQ in some loudness, they can do so just fine with monitors.

I agree and disagree
Becaue I owned Neumanns and auditioned Genelecs
To me Neumanns sounded a little more boring and Genelecs more exciting
Supposedly this shouldn't happen Becaue both of them should be pretty flat, but they sound pretty different.

 

[LTig]

That said, I listened to the Neumann KH310 today. And now I want the Neumann KH310. Shit. Just wonderful, clean, precise, flat. Was impressed by the bass response too. And that was even without a well treated room.

Some forumscanning later, I feel like the KH150 might be even better for me. Also great reviews everywhere, and no noticeable downgrade to the KH310 as far as I can tell (right?). The two way design and smaller design might be better for my small room. And the low end extension is insane for a 6,5 woofer. I mean, it is just crazy how they owned every other brand in that respect.

The price is EUR 1600 here. If I'm spending that kind of money, it's basically the same as the HEDD Type 20 Mk2 and the KH310. What do you think of those three compared in a relatively small room (the KH150, KH310 and the HEDD Type 20 mk2)?

Go for the KH310 because its a sealed box which means the FR does not drop like a stone compared to a vented box. With room gain it might be possible to get useful bass SPL down to 30 Hz.