Best source to “ feed” a DAC for Amazon HD

[Bamyasi]

The Fire Cube and the latest Fire TV stick will output 192/24 over HDMI.
I’d be interested to see this tested.

I've been using Fire TV Stick 4K (2018) with the latest firmware updates and I can assure you it does work, including 24/192 via optical to the DAC, provided that you use the right HDMI extractor. The latter can be tricky to find since few modes advertise this capability, and those which do often does not work. I have posted my experience with various HDMI extractors several times on other threads, check this thread, for instance.

Another tricky part with HDMI extractors is that people with AVR usually have their Fire TV Stick inserted directly in the AVR's HDMI port and extractor into HDMI output. This often won't work because many AVRs do not support high rate PCM audio and would prevent HDMI extractor from outputting it during EDID negotiations. I do not have an AVR and my FireStick is plugged into extractor directly, this way you can use DIP switches on the extractor to force high rate PCM pass-through from HDMI input to its S/PDIF output (coax or optical).

 

[Jazz]

Actually, sorry, I missed your objective. Apple iPhone 11 streaming Amazon Music HD to your MF V90 DAC via a USB connector is about as good as it gets for ROI to audio improvement. I did same with a Schiit Modi DAC and it was awesome. Airplay would just be more convenient, that is all. Echo Link would just really be for voice if you have an Echo. But the DAC would not be as good, probably.
You have it. Stick with that, I say.
The laptop probably put out a bunch of noise. The iPhone does not (as much).
BTW: if you do get an Airplay receiver, or have one in your set up, you could send the iPhone Amazon Music HD via Airplay and then into the V90 DAC coax or Toslink plug. Just more of a convince option for sitting far from your current set up using phone. That is what I do, using an old Airport Express. But with Apple Music. It will be interesting to A/B compare USB from phone to Airplay when Music HD comes to Apple shortly.

 

[Russm535il]

Welcome Russ. I will apologize ahead of time for the frustrations that all the tech companies have put in front of audio enthusiasts to do something that should be simple and intuitive.

Your iphone setup will likely be your most convenient option that will sound great. You already having it working which is great.

the Firestick would allow you to have a nice TV screen and remote control to lean back and listen. The complication is using HDMI to send audio. due to all the copy protection requirements of sending anything out of HDMI video devices it doesn't sound as good. Try it to see what you think.

If you use the Firestick you will need to follow these instructions to change these settings on the Fire Stick AND the Amazon Music App.

Music App instructions:
https://www.aftvnews.com/fire-tv-sticks-now-support-amazon-music-hd-streams-at-24-bits-192-khz/

FireTV stick requirements and instructions:
You'll need to go to the settings menu and adjust the audio output settings. Either set to "auto", or set to "PCM", or set to "Stereo." depending on what ends up working for you to get the signal out in 24bit.

Again, I apologize for the companies making these mobile and streaming operating systems for making it more complicated than it has to be for all of us.

Thank you

 

[Russm535il]

Thank you all !! I really appreciate you taking the time to give me advice !! Russ

 

[ObjectAudio]

Find my versatile solution that includes Amazon HD that use older iPhone converted to Squeezebox / Airplay client.
(73) Old iPhone/iPad with iPeng playback and external DAC, amazing versatile Squeezebox streamer solution. | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

 

[Jazz]

Are you sure?

There are so many limits. It really depends! The other limit (probably changing this June) would be if via Airplay but, since it is wired, the limit would be the DAC (ultimately). The other limit is the human ear too. But the big one is, how good a recording was it!
This is why I am more and more not GAF. AAC for mobile and 16/44.1 CD quality streaming is just fine with me.

• Audio formats supported: AAC‑LC, HE‑AAC, HE‑AAC v2, Protected AAC, MP3, Linear PCM, Apple Lossless, FLAC, Dolby Digital (AC‑3), Dolby Digital Plus (E‑AC‑3), Dolby Atmos, and Audible (formats 2, 3, 4, Audible Enhanced Audio, AAX, and AAX+)
  https://www.apple.com/iphone-11/specs/

 

[AdamG]

This thread right here is inspiring in so many ways. A most impressive show of help to a new Member. This is my High!

 

[Russm535il]

This thread right here is inspiring in so many ways. A most impressive show of help to a new Member. This is my High!

Amazing group I am learning a lot Russ

 

[Russm535il]

There are so many limits. It really depends! The other limit (probably changing this June) would be if via Airplay but, since it is wired, the limit would be the DAC (ultimately). The other limit is the human ear too. But the big one is, how good a recording was it!
This is why I am more and more not GAF. AAC for mobile and 16/44.1 CD quality streaming is just fine with me.

• Audio formats supported: AAC‑LC, HE‑AAC, HE‑AAC v2, Protected AAC, MP3, Linear PCM, Apple Lossless, FLAC, Dolby Digital (AC‑3), Dolby Digital Plus (E‑AC‑3), Dolby Atmos, and Audible (formats 2, 3, 4, Audible Enhanced Audio, AAX, and AAX+)
  https://www.apple.com/iphone-11/specs/

Great info thank you Russ

 

[D700]

I sent them suggestion years ago to make an Echo Show a visual jukebox by adding optical/hdmi out...would be so easy. "Play Mozart" and pop up album art and virtual controls...I mean, that stuff's already there. "Play Star Wars" and the Echo Show becomes your movie player. Can't for the life of me figure out why they've left it to 3rd party partners to provide AMHDUltra support....the whole world has AVRs with optical/HDMI in...just a no brainer.

Echo Link? What were they thinking, not one uses RCA any more.

 

[Mgrey]

I’m a new member/poster trying to figure out why Am/HD sounds bad on my setup. i’m using a Firestick 4k attached to the Amazon Basics audio extractor (which seems to be a rebadged Kanex - same exact size, layout, ports and functions) feeding a Topping D50s And from there to my preamp/amp. The DAC registers 192khz. Both the optical and the coax sound harsh and overly bright and sibilant. Might the problem be the exractor or the cables (optical sounded fine when used with an Airport, coax is new Kabledirekt). By way of comparison, Qobuz streamed via DLNA to a Mac mini - USB - Topping sounds great. Any thoughts/help appreciated.

 

[Beershaun]

HDMI output is typically very noisy due to the HDCP2.2 DRM requirements and the architecture of HDMI being a video based standard. I have also found that streaming via network connection like DNLA is much better than HDMI connections for listening to music.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

HDMI output is typically very noisy due to the HDCP2.2 DRM requirements and the architecture of HDMI being a video based standard. I have also found that streaming via network connection like DNLA is much better than HDMI connections for listening to music.

Isn’t a lot of what we learn here that the quality of the DAC will remove issues caused by installations like this (jitter)?

 

[Beershaun]

Isn’t a lot of what we learn here that the quality of the DAC will remove issues caused by installations like this (jitter)?

My understanding is noise is propagated through the system.

I am referencing Amir's post on HDMI performance impact on a DAC.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s/a-deep-dive-into-hdmi-audio-performance.56/

 

[Bamyasi]

My understanding is noise is propagated through the system.

I am referencing Amir's post on HDMI performance impact on a DAC.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s/a-deep-dive-into-hdmi-audio-performance.56/

The only fact reliably demonstrated in this article is that Amir's laptop HDMI port was broken at the time. It also clearly showed that it is possible to have a perfect HDMI implementation (e.g., see the measurements for Mark Levinson No 360 S DAC HDMI port). The fact that most AVRs have limited S/N ratio is nothing new and it pertains to all their other ports as well. Maybe, just maybe one can say that on average, HDMI implementation in cheap AVRs is performing worse than S/PDIF, but even that was true six years ago. Also, I have strong reservations about making general conclusions based on a single sample (AVR).

 

[Beershaun]

The only fact reliably demonstrated in this article is that Amir's laptop HDMI port was broken at the time. It also clearly showed that it is possible to have a perfect HDMI implementation (e.g., see the measurements for Mark Levinson No 360 S DAC HDMI port). The fact that most AVRs have limited S/N ratio is nothing new and it pertains to all their other ports as well. Maybe, just maybe one can say that on average, HDMI implementation in cheap AVRs is performing worse than S/PDIF, but even that was true six years ago. Also, I have strong reservations about making general conclusions based on a single sample (AVR).

I'd love to see an updated comparison to see how HDMI inputs perform on most mass market AVRs. I do too want to see if there has been an improvement. The fact this does demonstrate is that getting a high fidelity signal through HDMI is not guaranteed nor is it free to implement. And looking at the spec. and all the requirements for this video connector shows there are multiple decryption and decoding chips between the connector and the DAC that aren't there for SPDIF connectors. And those won't be silent for free either. Music SINAD simply isn't the priority for a video connector. So while I can't provide additional measurements. I can certainly see the stack of hardware in the two signal chains and tell you it ain't the same.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

I’m still of the opinion…

Whether I/we like it or not, the future is in streaming. And, whilst it’s great to hold a physical product, at least part of that experience is the visual rather than the tactile.

Amazon (and others) would do well to wholeheartedly sign up to music streaming as a visual experience as much as an auditory one. They’re a long way down that road. As well as album covers they have lyrics, too.

But let’s go a step further. Using a stick or cube as a source is not much different a step as moving from plain to picture sleeves on 7” singles. These products should be unashamedly music streamers, unashamedly delivering the visual along with the music, and unashamedly audiophile. Just stick in a USB out for your DAC.

 

[Mgrey]

Thanks, all, for an interesting discussion.
The harsh/overly bright/sibilant sound seems to be only in my main listening room (the equipment as described previously). The system in my home office (iMac - usb out to - Schiit Modi3 DAC - analogue out to receiver) sounds fine with AM/HD.
As an experiment, I tried the Schiit Modi3 in the main listening room but the sound was no better than the Topping D50s - still harsh/bright/sibilant.
This leads me to 3 possible conclusions:
1. As Beershsaun noted, HDMI is the problem and better sound will only come when Amazon ( or a 3rd party) issues a device that, unlike the Link, doesn’t downsample its digital output.
2. The Amazon Basics audio extractor is doing something that causes the problem and I should try the Cable Matters device.
3. The power supply (a 5 outlet usb box) is causing noise/distortion or frequency abnormalities in the audio extractor or Firestick output.
Any thoughts/suggestions appreciated.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

Thanks, all, for an interesting discussion.
The harsh/overly bright/sibilant sound seems to be only in my main listening room (the equipment as described previously). The system in my home office (iMac - usb out to - Schiit Modi3 DAC - analogue out to receiver) sounds fine with AM/HD.
As an experiment, I tried the Schiit Modi3 in the main listening room but the sound was no better than the Topping D50s - still harsh/bright/sibilant.
This leads me to 3 possible conclusions:
1. As Beershsaun noted, HDMI is the problem and better sound will only come when Amazon ( or a 3rd party) issues a device that, unlike the Link, doesn’t downsample its digital output.
2. The Amazon Basics audio extractor is doing something that causes the problem and I should try the Cable Matters device.
3. The power supply (a 5 outlet usb box) is causing noise/distortion or frequency abnormalities in the audio extractor or Firestick output.
Any thoughts/suggestions appreciated.

That’s very good research, well done.

Have you tried the stick straight into an AV amp through HDMI?

 

[Joe Smith]

My main issue with Amazon HD is frequent drop-outs I'm experiencing with the Windows application. I think the size of their download buffer is not large enough, as I've experienced this on both my work and personal laptop and with different DACs as well. I was evaluating it, but plan to stick with Spotify, as their stream/buffer seems to work well. Otherwise, I like the sound quality with Amazon and the interface is pretty good. I hope they will increase their buffering or solve this issue, it seems to affect many Windows users.