Best sounding full-size closed-back...

[ZolaIII]

The NAD HP50 and the Paradox are the best closed cans I've heard. I haven't head the Beyer or AKG's being discussed here.

The HP50 has comfort issues if you wear it for a long time. The earpads are too shallow, so it's not a true circumaural, and the square headband makes a pressure point on the top of my head. I don't know what they were thinking with that design.

Pufff just another Fostex repack for 4x higher price.

 

[DeepFried]

I'm very fond of my DT770 250ohms (modified), I have 3 ply of tissue over the driver which tames the treble nicely. I've only had a few closed backs in the past but they're my favourites by a long shot, and quite comfortable too.

 

[The Mule]

Good thread. I've been trying a few closed backs recently. I had the K371s, and I was surprised I didn't like them at all. (The K612 Pro is one of my favorite open cans, but I can't use them where I work now!) I have the K553 Pro's, which I do like, but they could use a hair more low end. I thought the K371s had a way too boomy low end. But then I tried the K361s, and *those*, I like. A lot. I also like the Meze 99 Noirs, and the Senn 569s. I have the DT770 Pro 80s, and I really like those too. CAL!: I like the sound signature if a little bright, but my ears don't like the pads much. I have the Purplehearts, and too bassy. Thinksound ON2, really like them. Sony 100A(AP): too bassy. Solderdude, I have a pair of M40x with your pads/felt mod, and I really like those. Beats EP: too bassy. (I had to try!) M50x, too bassy, don't like the clamping. One more! Koss Pro4S: a little V shaped, with a treble a little hotter than I like, but the boosted low end almost perfectly balances the treble. The Koss's D shaped pads actually fit my (differently shaped/sized?) ears differently, which is the 1st time that's happened. I think that's it? I have different pads coming for the CAL!s and Purplehearts to try and fix what I don't like about each of them.

Faves right now are the Mezes and 569s, but I've had those the longest. Out of the new ones (for me), I really like the DT770 Pro 80s, and the K361s.

I'm curious to look at the DT1770s. Whereas for open cans where I've investigated up to a $500 price point, other than the Mezes, all the closed cans I have are cheaper. Curious what a more expensive closed can can (!) do for me, but I haven't come across a pair that I feel comfortable enough to try yet ...

 

[solderdude]

The tonal balance differences between the K361's and Meze's couldn't be bigger. Given the data above tonal balance isn't your deciding point whether you like a headphone or not but rather if the 'presentation' they bring sound pleasant to you.
Not an absolute 'truth' seeker (accuracy) but a 'pleasure' seeker. There are so many headphones that do just that (not adhere to a single target) but bring enjoyments. For that reason it pays to own more than one.

I like the DT1770's but not in stock form, too boomy and not 'smooth' in the treble. Can be fixed.

 

[The Mule]

I actually have thought about this a little, in that I'm an engineer, and it's curious to me that I don't like headphones that I think I should like. ... And the K553 Pros are even further away from the Mezes, yet I like them too. I think for me, there is a bandwidth of freq response that I can live with, and enjoy. If it's outside that range, forget it. For all the people that like the M50x and the K371, they just don't do it for me. Oh, there was another Sennheiser pair that I had last summer. Momentum 2, I think. I *loved* the form factor, but every time I'd listen to them, I'd get a headache because of the ... boomy low end. And really, I *tried* to like the K371, but same thing, headache due to the boomy low end. But conversely, and considering that the K361 is cheaper, those are great headphones! Weird, I know ...

Small story about the Mezes in that I had a buddy who had them, so I got to hear them before I bought them, although he had Classics, and I got the Noirs. But he got his a while ago, I got mine last summer . Then I learned that the pads had changed, and the newer pads were bassier than the older pads. I was nervous as heck that I wouldn't like them, and they'd be too bassy, but they were perfect! New "bassy" pads too! And oddly enough, I think them and the 569s sound almost identical. (So now I'm getting the smaller, earlier Meze pads to try and tame the Purplehearts' low end!)

I just spent some time looking up freq response curves of the 1770 vs 770 80. And the 1770s do have a darker tilt. Maybe if I can get a pair cheap, I'll try them sometime. Solderdude, because of your success with the M40x mods, what do you do with the 1770s to improve them? One of the key things I've figured out over the years, is that once you find someone who "hears" like you (I) do, that's gold, because then I can trust that if they like something, I will too. Frame of reference, is everything.

 

[solderdude]

I partly cover the ports this lowers the bass to lower levels. You can tune it to your taste.
Don't like pleather pads and in this case it makes the treble sound a bit coarse, as in not refined.
That can be solved by splapping some DT770 pads on there but you get the typical treble peak in return.
That last bit can be solved by a filter or EQ. Once that peak is gone the treble is of higher quality and you get the comfort of Beyer pads.
Stock the DT1770 isn't what I was looking for.

 

[The Mule]

Can you use felt (like the M40x) or a few ply of toilet paper to tame the treble?

 

[solderdude]

yes, you can use those to tame the treble somewhat but it will also affect the upper frequencies more than you might want dulling the sound.
The problem with acoustical changes is that it rarely only affects what you want corrected, it almost always also changes things that shouldn't.
This, to me, is the worth of passive filtering or EQ (when possible).
For proper EQ you will need digital manipulation somewhere in the chain, a passive filter can always be used on any system.

 

[dorirod]

Nope L and R of the M40X I had. The imbalance was quite audible as well, bass 'pulled' to the left. Was very annoying.

Here is what I did with it.

@solderdude would you mind giving an example of what kind of felt pads you use for the mods? I'm not sure if I should just go with a random Amazon selection. Also, do you make it round, oval, etc? I have the ATH-M40X but I'm using them with ZMF Lambskin pads (much more comfortable). I have noticed the imbalance from the start but thought it was just my mind playing tricks. I don't notice as much anymore (maybe got used to it), but I figured I would try the pad mod and see if I notice any change.

Thank you, your site is invaluable!

 

[3125b]

I'd also vote for the K371, great allrounder without any real flaws that I could find, be it sound, comfort or construction. For 106€ they are a really good buy.

Maybe something to add to that:

I just bought some HD 569 used and they are growing on me with EQ (Harman with 2dB extra Bass up to 125Hz). They are the first closed back headphones that work in terms of imaging/staging for my ears.
That is a pretty big advantage over the K371. Other advantages are the better outside noise isolation, the (slightly) less microphonic cable, the replacable and easily available microfibre (as opposed to pleather) ear pads and maybe the larger ear cups.
Disadvantages are the worse factory tuning, portability (not terribly compact, not foldable, don't come with a bag or case), the influcence of high impedance sources (uneven impedance curve like most Sennheisers) and the not-very-nice all plastic construction.

 

[solderdude]

what kind of felt pads you use for the mods?

It was 2mm thick wool felt from a local crafts store, cut it in about the same diameter as the driver.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/y5i5wbnmn43xn15/ATH-M40X_modifications.pdf/file

No idea how the ZMF pads change the sound yet again.

 

[nhatlam96]

I prefered an eq'd DT770 over an eq'd DT1990A. Best closed back I have heard so far is Focal Elegia + Dekoni Sheepskin Pads. I liked the M50X portable more than the Bose 35ii sth.

 

[Cylphio]

It's worth trying the new foam disc sold by beyerdynamic as spare parts for the amino wireless: they selectively cut the highs from 7 to 9 khz by 6db, my dt770 became a neutrality champion

 

[cistercian]

My favorite phones are the Sennheiser HD600. Of course, they are open back...and I mostly use them for music. They are far
from perfect, but serve for me as the standard. I need a good set of cans for use with my ham radio transceiver that had very
high isolation and also great clarity in the spoken voice range. I have bought the HD280pro. 300Pro, HD25, and the HD569.
The HD300pro was the best of them. The HD25 are good as well but not enough isolation on my ears next came the 280's
and in last place the HD569 which is pretty poor. The 300's are only ok and you will need to eq them for musical use but they are
very comfy for closed backs. Ideal for digging voices from the noise on radio they are also fun for music. HD25 is also a very fun
set but not exactly flat!

FWIW. For Senn fans.

 

[Hunts887]

In stock form I didn't like the DT1770.
However, with the port mod (sligthly sealing the small ports) and using the silver/grey DT770 pads + treble filter it sounds excellent to me.
None of the typical 'closed' sound and excellent tonal balance.
Also I use a much shorter cable (no influence in sound)

It does require a DT1770 + EDT770V pads (with the black EDT770VB pads, which are stiffer and firmer it is 'darker' sounding with less clarity) + filter (DIY or only available from me) + some effort to tune the bass.
This adds to the price of the DT1770 alone.
Fortunately from me I was able to buy it second hand (ditched the original pads anyway) and had the DT770 pads in stock anyway.

It differs from the DT1990 in that it has much more 'body' to the sound which is missing from DT1990A. The filter (or EQ) is needed as the 'sharpness' is too much for me. Some actually like that and feel it ads a sense of hyper detail. In the end it is unnatural emphasis and fatiguing.
The DT1990B is warmer but also lacks 'body'. The modified DT1770 is very neutral, 'open' sounding, detailed and natural.

The modified DT1770 I walk around with (portable amp cause 250 Ohm) I can wear for many hours.

disclaimer: The DT1770 is currently the 'best' (affordable) closed headphone to ME. There are other closed back headphones that may sound 'better'. I haven't heard/measured all closed headphones around and don't buy uber expensive ones. So... it is not THE 'best' closed headphone. It just is the best sounding one to me that I own. It may not be 'best' to many others.

Can you tell me if your opinion still stands for these? I own these myself, and I can find them fatiguing after a while. I don't know if that is the intrinsic design or the earcups being solid metal, or if it is EQ.

I used the velour pads, and I have Oratory's new pad EQ with 1db boost at 105hz. -5.3db at 135hz. Are the EDT770V pads still recommended? and what is involved in both the port seal and what is the filter that you mentioned?

I hesitate in selling them as I do love the detail that these headphones can retrieve and full-body sound, compared to the thin sounding 770 and 880s etc. Hopefully I can figure them out.

 

[solderdude]

The fatiguing part can be the amount (and tonality) of bass and/or the treble part.
To me the bass was too high and a bit too DT770 alike which has a 'one note bass' to me.
The partial sealing of the port improved the quality of the bass. It affects damping which EQ won't do.
This is really easy to experiment with using a piece of tape. Just make sure you have the exact same area covered on both cups.
It starts to affect the sound quite dramatically once you have covered about 3/4.
The treble (mount Beyer peak) was the worst offender. This can be EQ'ed.
I do not feel the need to fill-in the 2-5kHz peak (probably an ear-gain thing as I tend to prefer headphones with a bit less ear-gain)
The DT770 pads (the grey ones) differ from the DT1770 velour pads and liked it better with the grey pads but the treble peak is higher on those pads but filters out nice (with EQ)
The EQ needed differs between the DT770 and DT1770 velours pads.

So when using EQ I would lower the midbass peak and treble similar to the filter (so -8dB at 8kHz with the DT770 pads).
Perhaps just partially fill in the 2-5kHz dip (just 2 dB or so) when desiring a bit more clarity.

Haven't used the modified and filtered DT1770 in years though it is sitting in its case.
It was replaced for quite a while by a modified and filtered SRH940 with SRH1540 pads. I replaced the horrible quality headband. This headphone also has less ear-gain which seems to work for me.

measures like this:

I did not know that Shure could sound this good. The stock one is terrible in the treble.
Modified and filtered the response is very 'smooth' (no peaks/dips) which IMO is what makes the sound quality good.

These days I would recommend the OLLO S4R (1.2) or Austrian Audio Hi-X60 (with lower treble peak filter)
Have not heard/measured the DCA E3 yet but this one is 4x the price of the AA and OLLO and may be a bit too 'thick' and 'forward' for me. I do not seem to prefer the Harman tuning.

 

[Hunts887]

The fatiguing part can be the amount (and tonality) of bass and/or the treble part.
To me the bass was too high and a bit too DT770 alike which has a 'one note bass' to me.
The partial sealing of the port improved the quality of the bass. It affects damping which EQ won't do.
This is really easy to experiment with using a piece of tape. Just make sure you have the exact same area covered on both cups.
It starts to affect the sound quite dramatically once you have covered about 3/4.
The treble (mount Beyer peak) was the worst offender. This can be EQ'ed.
I do not feel the need to fill-in the 2-5kHz peak (probably an ear-gain thing as I tend to prefer headphones with a bit less ear-gain)
The DT770 pads (the grey ones) differ from the DT1770 velour pads and liked it better with the grey pads but the treble peak is higher on those pads but filters out nice (with EQ)
The EQ needed differs between the DT770 and DT1770 velours pads.

So when using EQ I would lower the midbass peak and treble similar to the filter (so -8dB at 8kHz with the DT770 pads).
Perhaps just partially fill in the 2-5kHz dip (just 2 dB or so) when desiring a bit more clarity.

Haven't used the modified and filtered DT1770 in years though it is sitting in its case.
It was replaced for quite a while by a modified and filtered SRH940 with SRH1540 pads. I replaced the horrible quality headband. This headphone also has less ear-gain which seems to work for me.

measures like this:

I did not know that Shure could sound this good. The stock one is terrible in the treble.
Modified and filtered the response is very 'smooth' (no peaks/dips) which IMO is what makes the sound quality good.

These days I would recommend the OLLO S4R (1.2) or Austrian Audio Hi-X60 (with lower treble peak filter)
Have not heard/measured the DCA E3 yet but this one is 4x the price of the AA and OLLO and may be a bit too 'thick' and 'forward' for me. I do not seem to prefer the Harman tuning.

Thanks for all the data here and recommendations.

I did sell the 1770s in the end, but something tells me I might end up with them once again. There is something about their detail retrieval that I love, but I will need to incorporate your DIY mods, should I buy them once again.

I did read a lot of horror stories of the Shure headbands. Would you say they compare well to the 1770s? be interesting to hear how you think they compare if you get around to trying your Beyers again.

I have Sundaras on the way to try (and add the bass shelf in EQ). I might try the S4R at some point as well.