Best sounding full-size closed-back...

[xykreinov]

They not only look very different but without EQ they also sound very different.
The 1 dB difference in deviation from the Harman target is the average which doesn't really tell much soundwise like for example the typical Beyer peak that can be quite annoying.

I'm aware they sound very different. However, reiterating, my point wasn't to claim the DT770 sounds virtually the same as the K371. Rather, to point out both are close enough to the Harman target to make difference in sound between the DT770 and K371 irrelevant to one's preference of the Harman target. For example, while the K371 has sub-bass more faithful to the target than the DT770, the DT770 follows the initial treble climb of the target slightly more closely. See what I mean?

I think part of this is true between 1kHz and 20kHz but not for below 1kHz.
The lift in the lows is based on
A: preference of test subjects while determining the tonal balance
B: trying to mimic the bass boost one gets when playing a flat speaker in an average listening room.
C: the missing tactile feel (for lowest frequency body sensations are weighed in by the brain)
D: In some cases listening to headphones is done at lower than 80dB SPL average so there is loss of lows due to equal contour loudness effects.

Some or all of the above is why people prefer some extra bass and that is incorporated in the Harman target which is based on listening experiences.

As for the sound changing around the ears (actually when hitting the ear drum) this happens with sounds from headphones as well as speakers.
The only differences are the angles and speakers being more of a point source where headphone drivers, being close to the ear are relatively big 'walls' emitting sound (so not a point source)

The tonal change is the difference between sounds coming from the front and sounds coming from the side. There are differences which are individually different due to Pinna shapes and above 2kHz even age or 'damage' dependent.
The brain takes care of that though it knows how reality sounds and uses that as a reference.
The same is true for sounds coming from the sides.

Then there is the channel separation and how the brain handles that.

You can't compare speakers to headphones. Different horses for different coarses. Sure one can try to emulate but it will never be the same.
It's a matter of letting the brain get used to it or use DSP to try to emulate. And this too will vary individually.

Thanks for the detailed write-up.

Anything which will cross over mids is garbage, mids account for 60% of information in audio and only reason to want some boost in highs in my case is my age.

Such is the case for speakers. However, again, headphones tuned flat do not sound flat due to various parts of your ear changing the sound of transducers to greater degrees when the transducers are right next to them.

 

[ZolaIII]

@xykreinov such is the case with sound and my ears disregarding if it's a speaker or headaphones.

 

[xykreinov]

@xykreinov such is the case with sound and my ears disregarding if it's a speaker or headaphones.

Have you ever listened to a headphone EQed flat?

 

[ZolaIII]

Have you ever listened to a headphone EQed flat?

Yes doing it right now as we speak.

 

[thewas]

I'm aware they sound very different. However, reiterating, my point wasn't to claim the DT770 sounds virtually the same as the K371. Rather, to point out both are close enough to the Harman target to make difference in sound between the DT770 and K371 irrelevant to one's preference of the Harman target.

Sorry but I don't see it at all they way, the K371 follows it much closer while the 770 has very large deviation both at low mids, bass and treble:

vs.

The only larger deviation that K371 has is the dip around 4 Khz which also the 770 has, just a tad lower in frequency.

For example, while the K371 has sub-bass more faithful to the target than the DT770, the DT770 follows the initial treble climb of the target slightly more closely. See what I mean?

I also don't see that is significantly closer to the target in the initial treble climb, but rather the 770 being ragged there.

 

[xykreinov]

Yes doing it right now as we speak.

Huh. To clarify, EQed flat as in you've compensated the bands for your specific can's frequency response?

Sorry but I don't see it at all they way, the K371 follows it much closer while the 770 has very large deviation both at low mids, bass and treble:

vs.

The only larger deviation that K371 has is the dip around 4 Khz which also the 770 has, just a tad lower in frequency.

I also don't see that is significantly closer to the target in the initial treble climb, but rather the 770 being ragged there.

Fair enough. Still, the DT770 is close enough to the target to not make your preference for it inherently to do with distaste of the Harman target. It follows the curve at arguably one of the more crucial regions between around 300hz and 2.7khz, and very few headphones score an 84 or above as a preference rating stock.

 

[ZolaIII]

@xykreinov all right...
Creative Aurvana Air earbuds:

EQ:

Inserted like this:

Output recorded with N808 mics (buds applied directly to mics but not hard):
https://www74.zippyshare.com/v/00XAbesK/file.html
Plot:

 

[4dbcut]

Under $200 DT-770 is the best IMO. But listen to them first, I think every audio store has them.

 

[xykreinov]

@xykreinov all right...
Creative Aurvana Air earbuds:
View attachment 63952
EQ:
View attachment 63953
Inserted like this:
View attachment 63954
Output recorded with N808 mics (buds applied directly to mics but not hard):
https://www74.zippyshare.com/v/00XAbesK/file.html
Plot:
View attachment 63956

Dang, alright then. Those buds look comfy- don't think I've seen ear-hooked with a foam tip before.

Under $200 DT-770 is the best IMO. But listen to them first, I think every audio store has them.

Lotsa DT770 fans ITT. I have cheap and slim pleather pads on mine at the moment. I feel like if I upgrade to something more cushiony, I'll lose out on some analytics and noise attenuation. Anyone have experience with DT770 pad-swapping?

 

[ZolaIII]

@xykreinov you can ware those all day long & the mics on N808 are best one's on anything ever made which you can put in your pocket.

 

[xykreinov]

@ZolaIII They really do look comfy. Wonder how easy it would be to mod them to have a detachable cable.
What does N808 refer to? The Nokia 808 Pureview?

 

[ZolaIII]

@ZolaIII They really do look comfy. Wonder how easy it would be to mod them to have a detachable cable.
What does N808 refer to? The Nokia 808 Pureview?

Yup Nokia & 140 dB sensitive mics. Aurvanu Air has a Nickel shell & grill so I imagine they would be hard to open, the ear huck is NiTi. On the other hand cable is quality one OFC with TPU shielding soft and smooth while not picking mechanical noise... Driver is Foster 15.6 mm paper cone 103 dB LPS 35 Ohm's.

 

[xykreinov]

Yup Nokia & 140 dB sensitive mics. Aurvanu Air has a Nickel shell & grill so I imagine they would be hard to open, the ear huck is NiTi. On the other hand cable is quality one OFC with TPU shielding soft and smooth while not picking mechanical noise... Driver is Foster 15.6 mm paper cone 103 dB LPS 35 Ohm's.

Oh sweet. I miss my Nokia Lumia Icon's camera and mic array. While the camera is still arguably better than that of most modern phones in certain respects like faith in dynamics and detail, the microphones are definitely unchallenged. I've never heard a phone record audio nearly as well.
Man, the cell phone landscape is really lame in comparison to other pc form factors. Compromises basically everywhere. What ROM are you using for the 808?
Interesting. The Airs have a really uniquely nice form factor, so I hope I can figure out a way to cable-mod them. They would make for a good portable headset.

 

[ZolaIII]

@xykreinov N808 is on a official locked 1.1 firmware, I use it as a spare phone for a picture or two & live recording. Compared N808 pics couple days ago with Huawei Nova 5T, Samsung S10 & S20 Ultra. All do Nokia ones can be a hit or miss when it's a hit still nothing comes close. Air's are great (to me) especially during the summer.

 

[xykreinov]

@xykreinov N808 is on a official locked 1.1 firmware, I use it as a spare phone for a picture or two & live recording. Compared N808 pics couple days ago with Huawei Nova 5T, Samsung S10 & S20 Ultra. All do Nokia ones can be a hit or miss when it's a hit still nothing comes close. Air's are great (to me) especially during the summer.

Ah, okay. Was crossing my fingers I found some super secret hack for it.
>Nokia ones can be a hit or miss when it's a hit still nothing comes close

That's a good summary of my experience as well. While certain things are less sophisticated, others are just unsurpassed. With the select scenes those others shine, nothing compares.
Yeah, the Air's look great for the summer. Lots of room to breath.

 

[Human Bass]

Soundmagic hp1000 ia getting a lot of hype just under 300 bucks

 

[ShiZo]

focal elegia

 

[3125b]

With a 200$ budget you could only get a pair of earpads for the Elegia. And those don't sound all that good on their own ...

I'd also vote for the K371, great allrounder without any real flaws that I could find, be it sound, comfort or construction. For 106€ they are a really good buy.

 

[Gabs]

Hi,

What are the characteristics of the sound that are the most important to you ?

EDIT : I paid my 1more triple headphones around 80 bucks new and with modification maybe it could fit your need, it's possible to make them over-head.
EDIT 2 : Did you consifer Grado headphones ?
EDIT 3 : Did you consider HE400i ?

 

[riker1384]

The NAD HP50 and the Paradox are the best closed cans I've heard. I haven't head the Beyer or AKG's being discussed here.

The HP50 has comfort issues if you wear it for a long time. The earpads are too shallow, so it's not a true circumaural, and the square headband makes a pressure point on the top of my head. I don't know what they were thinking with that design.