Behringer Studio XL Monitor Controller

[Scrivs]

Oh dear….and to think I watched this interview with Uli Behringer the other day, I’ve actually used/played with a couple of the synths/keyboards a number of years ago and thought they were great value for what they offered, but this unit is a fail.

Didn’t watch the video— Uli (I presume) is putting out straight vampire vibes.

I’m sure he’s the nicest guy

 

[Geert]

What the heck is the scale on those? +8 what? Is Clip digital or analog?

Over 8dB is clipping level, and it looks like the digital FS level and max analog headroom are aligned at that point. That’s why it’s clipping at 0dB FS on the USB input.

Behringer specified THD+N at 4dBu (1,23V RMS), the pro standard pro level, and not at 14dBu (4V RMS) nor 22dBu:

If you want to keep THD in check, respect the 4dBu nominal level (maintain headroom, watch the VU meters, also when using the USB input). That’s how it’s done in a studio. The nominal level is the desired operational level. Higher than that is headroom where you can go on your own risk, usually bad practise. 4dBu output should be fine to drive active studio monitors which also adhere to this pro standard to max spl, most will be even more sensitive and provide a gain control.

Someone mentioned the Mackie Big Knob as an alternative. It also specifies THD at unity gain at 4dBu, with 22dBu as the clipping level. And the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 reviewed a few months ago also showed degrading performance when driven to 0dB FS (although to a lesser extend).

That’s how this device is designed. As I said before, I also prefer a device with a lot of clean headroom, but I experienced poor headroom with budget pro audio equipment before (like with preamps of entry level digital mixing consoles). My conclusion is that with this interface $239 buys you lot of functionality, with mediocre THD+N and headroom.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Over 8dB is clipping level, and it looks like the digital FS level and max analog headroom are aligned at that point. That’s why it’s clipping at 0dB FS on the USB input.

Behringer specified THD+N at 4dBu (1,23V RMS), the pro standard pro level, and not at 14dBu (4V RMS) nor 22dBu:

View attachment 440768

If you want to keep THD in check, respect the 4dBu nominal level (maintain headroom, watch the VU meters, also when using the USB input). That’s how it’s done in a studio. The nominal level is the desired operational level. Higher than that is headroom where you can go on your own risk, usually bad practise. 4dBu output should be fine to drive active studio monitors which also adhere to this pro standard to max spl, most will be even more sensitive and provide a gain control.

Someone mentioned the Mackie Big Knob as an alternative. It also specifies THD at unity gain at 4dBu, with 22dBu as the clipping level. And the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 reviewed a few months ago also showed degrading performance when driven to 0dB FS (although to a lesser extend).

That’s how this device is designed. As I said before, I also prefer a device with a lot of clean headroom, but I experienced poor headroom with budget pro audio equipment before (like with preamps of entry level digital mixing consoles). My conclusion is that with this interface $239 buys you lot of functionality, with mediocre THD+N and headroom.

Come on now. Uli is hiding behind that 4 dbu level to make it look like he has something other than a bottom of the barrel product. Others do so much better with more headroom there simply is no reason to settle for this farce of a product. Remember if something seems too good to be true it probably is. All the promises of this $239 device are just that. Too much for too little for it to be good. You have to really be giving it the benefit of the doubt to defend this result.

 

[Geert]

Uli is hiding behind that 4 dbu level to make it look like he has something other than a bottom of the barrel product

The pro standard of 4 dBu as a nominal level is real and taken serious in pro audio, it has nothing to do with hiding. Go work in a large broadcast facility and mix down to >4 dBu, and you will be out of a job soon.

You have to really be giving it the benefit of the doubt to defend this result.

I didn’t defend it. I explained what the pro audio nominal level standard is and how it’s being used, and rated the product as mediocre. I did that before, to no avail it seems.

Others do so much better with more headroom there simply is no reason to settle for this farce of a product.

Note that this is not just an audio interface, it’s a studio monitoring controller. I didn’t see an alternative reviewed before. Not that there is any doubt that there are better, but for that price?

 

[amirm]

Behringer specified THD+N at 4dBu (1,23V RMS), the pro standard pro level, and not at 14dBu (4V RMS) nor 22dBu:

That is a random "system" measurement, not a sensitivity spec. Heaven knows what it means anyway. Is it input? Output? Or input from output? Analog or digital at either end?

System​

Frequency response	20 Hz to 20 kHz (±0.5 dB)
Signal-to-noise ratio	<-90 dBu RMS, un-weighted
Distortion (THD+N)	<0.01% @ 1 kHz, unity gain, 4 dBu input

Never seen an interface give a generic number like this and not specify what routing is being used.

The same is spec is very clear on maximum input level:

Maximum input level

+22 dBu

That would be 9 volts input, far in excess of 0.5 volt which is optimal for it. It certainly is not 4 dBu as you claim.

If you want to keep THD in check, respect the 4dBu nominal level (maintain headroom, watch the VU meters, also when using the USB input). That’s how it’s done in a studio. The nominal level is the desired operational level. Higher than that is headroom where you can go on your own risk, usually bad practise. 4dBu output should be fine to drive active studio monitors which also adhere to this pro standard to max spl, most will be even more sensitive and provide a gain control.

Are you speaking of input or output? If output, it goes up to 9 volts or 22dBu (I measured it). The problem is not that. The problem is that it overflows at 0 dBFS *regardless* of analog output voltage. This must not happen. I have tested 500 DACs and maybe one or two have had a problem like this.

I can't believe how much time is wasted with all these suppositions and misinformation being posted.

 

[amirm]

Go work in a large broadcast facility and mix down to >4 dBu, and you will be out of a job soon.

You would be the first fired for putting this device in a "large broadcast facility."

 

[Geert]

That is a random "system" measurement, not a sensitivity spec. Heaven knows what it means anyway. I

No, any sound engineer who sees 4dBu mentioned in specs of an audio device knows what it means. And ideally there would be separate specifications for input sensitivity of course.

The same is spec is very clear on maximum input level: (22 dBu)

This is the spec where only heaven knows what it means. That the device goes up in smoke at higher levels maybe?

The problem is that it overflows at 0 dBFS *regardless* of analog output voltage. This must not happen. I have tested 500 DACs and maybe one or two have had a problem like this.

And I explained why that is. 0dB FS = max analog level (clipping), somewhere internally in the device.

You would be the first fired for putting this device in a "large broadcast facility."

That’s below the belt. I worked in large broadcast facilities for 13 years. I know very well what type of equipment is being used there.

 

[boxerfan88]

CONSUMER vs PROFESSIONAL AUDIO LEVELS: -10 dBV vs +4 dBu – Audio University

audiouniversityonline.com

The line level standard for professional audio is +4 dBu, which is about 12 dB greater than the consumer line level standard of -10 dBV. The difference between them is actually about 12 dB. 11.7825, to be exact.

 

[sergeauckland]

As much as I generally like Behringer products, as a Broadcast Engineer, this product is very poor. Firstly, +4dBu is NOT a universal peak level standard. In the UK we peak to +8dBu, or PPM6. Other European countries commonly use +6dBu as peak level.
Regardless, ALL products used in broadcasting MUST pass +18dBu before clipping, as that's 0dBFS, and pretty much all pass +20dBu if not +22 or +24dBu.

Sadly, this is one instance when Behringer got it wrong.

S

 

[Geert]

ALL products used in broadcasting MUST pass +18dBu before clipping

And the Behringer will probably do that given the 22dBu spec. At what THD we don't know.

 

[Blumlein 88]

No, any sound engineer who sees 4dBu mentioned in specs of an audio device knows what it means. And ideally there would be separate specifications for input sensitivity of course.



This is the spec where only heaven knows what it means. That the device goes up in smoke at higher levels maybe?



And I explained why that is. 0dB FS = max analog level (clipping), somewhere internally in the device.



That’s below the belt. I worked in large broadcast facilities for 13 years. I know very well what type of equipment is being used there.

Ever see any Behringer gear ever? Even once? I didn't think so.

 

[Blumlein 88]

And the Behringer will probably do that given the 22dBu spec. At what THD we don't know.

We know the thd is pretty high versus other devices.

 

[Blumlein 88]

As much as I generally like Berhinger products, as a Broadcast Engineer, .....

Why? What products do they get right?

 

[amirm]

And I explained why that is. 0dB FS = max analog level (clipping), somewhere internally in the device.

One...more...time. Maximum analog output, as measured by me, and as specified by the company is 9 volts/22 dBu. You don't know what you are saying. You don't know what this device does. Or how it works. Yet keep throwing out arguments as if you are their PR person.

 

[amirm]

That’s below the belt. I worked in large broadcast facilities for 13 years. I know very well what type of equipment is being used there.

Oh? You saw them using $200 boxes like this? Do tell. Show us the gear and how they clip at 0 dBFS.

The broadcast studios I worked with, would throw you out in an instant if the saw measurements like I showed.

 

[Geert]

Oh? You saw them using $200 boxes like this? Do tell. Show us the gear and how they clip at 0 dBFS.

You're putting words in my mouth. The only thing I said about the broadcast world is that they are strict about nominal levels.

 

[Geert]

Maximum analog output, as measured by me, and as specified by the company is 9 volts/22 dBu.

And all I'm saying is that the maximum analog output (or internal bus) level corresponds to 0 dB FS on the USB input. So when you target the nominal output level of 4dBu, you shouldn't drive the USB input to 0dB FS.

Yet keep throwing out arguments as if you are their PR person.

A PR person calling out the device for its mediocre THD, headroom and specs ...

 

[restorer-john]

If the device heavily clips with 0dBFS sent to it, via the digital connection, and cannot be "unclipped" via OPT level controls, it is faulty by design.

If Amir has clipped the inputs or outputs by not considering the rated levels and/or the level indicators, that is a different story.

 

[Lambda]

And what excuse to have for the DAC to clip at 0 dBFS?

This Product is to be uses with a DAW!
The DAW software output is usually well below 0dBFS. most have 18 or 20dB "headroom"

Gain Staging In Your DAW Software

Despite the immense power and flexibility available in modern DAW software, many people still find that the mixes they craft entirely 'in the box' sound unsatisfying. Why is that?

www.soundonsound.com

"the signal can peak well above 0VU and cause no problems. Even with particularly high peak-to-average ratio sources such as a loud snare drum, the peak may be 'gracefully' clipped by the analogue circuitry — in the digital domain, by contrast, clipping produces anharmonic distortion which sounds very ugly."

What's that? I am supposed to ignore my Audio Analyzer telling if clipping is reached and instead should look at a few LEDs?

I don't pay attention to idiot lights on any such devices.

It will cause no end of frustration as it clips left and right, leaving the user guessing as to what is going on.

I mean if the company documented all of these limits, then maybe it would be something. You simply can't use the device without the measurements I just performed.

Well the Company documented this and the Company build the required metering right in... you just chose to ignore it.

 

[Rja4000]

That is not too dissimilar to Julian Krause's results with other Behringer mic inputs. Most devices don't create a curve vs input level like the one you found, but he found about the same. He also found very similar results to recording line level. So while a different model all right in line with your results. These devices are lousy at anything other than low levels. Something of a replication or confirmation that your results are not outliers. The device was not broken.

As I said above, this behaviour is what they proudly call "Midas signature" preamp.
It's done on purpose, not by accident.
Which, in my opinion, is not acceptable.


If they want to add that kind of effect, why not.
But then they should document it properly and make it defeatable.
Like in this Focusrite preamp or in the Cranborne audio preamp.