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Behringer A800 Stereo Amplifier Review

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amirm

amirm

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Thread Starter #81
Would you mind telling the exact values of all components which differ from the posted circuit? Especially the resistance of the inductors. I'd like to simulate your real world circuit. May take a few days though until I'm able to do so.
I have soldered the pieces together so can't isolate the parameters of all of them. For now, the one change is that I could only find a 500 microfarad cap instead of 540.
 

restorer-john

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#82
@amirm Just ran quick plots (R only) with my old AudioLab on 10 pairs of small and medium 2-way speakers in my lounge-room.

edit: can post plots if you want
 
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SIY

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#83
@amirm Just ran quick plots (R only) with my old AudioLab on 10 pairs of small and medium 2-way speakers in my lounge-room.

edit: can post plots if you want
I'd like to see them.
 

restorer-john

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#84
OK @SIY , I ran them all again. Some had got mixed up when converting from .bmp to .jpg en-masse and being pulled from my old AudioLab host PC.

All small to medium 2 ways, mostly 165mm. All bass reflex except one. Nothing really expensive, just fun little speakers.

B&W 602S2
b&w 602s2 test2.jpg

Jamo E-800
jamo e-800 test2.jpg

Sony APM-121ES
sony apm121es test2.jpg

Mirage FRX3
mirage frx3 test2.jpg

Wharfedale Diamond 9.1
wharfedale diamond 9.1 test2.jpg

MB Quart QL10C
mb quart ql10 test2.jpg

Dali Zensor 1
dali zensor1 test2.jpg

Gale 3010S
gale 3010s test2.jpg

Jamo E-855
jamo e-855 test2.jpg

Jamo Cornet2
jamo cornet2 test2.jpg
 

restorer-john

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#85
Here for comparison are Yamaha 165mm woofers removed from a pair of NS-200 swept in free air to see how close they are. One has a noticeably firmer roll surround to me. No crossover, straight on the terminals.

yamaha wooger pair free air.jpg


yamaha woofer.jpeg

And here's a historic plot of Yamaha NS-5X 2 way 165mm speakers I did in 1996!
yamaha ns5x.jpg
 

pma

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#86
Here is my simulation of the circuit, using the same scales as Stereophile. It's quite close but not identical:

View attachment 43370

And here with a 2nd order cross over with 2.5 kHz crossover frequency, calculated for 8 Ohm resistive load. Looks quite wild (I'm glad I have active speakers where the amps don't have to handle such loads):

View attachment 43371
Let me add 2 real life examples, 1st is Quadral Ascent 90
https://www.testberichte.de/p/quadral-tests/ascent-90-testbericht.html

2nd is CNO-T25 by Troels Gravesen
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/CNO-T25.htm

portopen_imp.JPG

Quadral Ascent 90


cno_compl_impedance.png


I do not see violent oscillating impedance changes that you have simulated.
 

LTig

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#87
Let me add 2 real life examples, [..]
I do not see violent oscillating impedance changes that you have simulated.
It's probably because the theoretical crossover I've simulated has no losses in the inductors. If I have some time I shall recalculate my simulations with real inductors.

EDIT: Simulation with real inductor (0.72 mH, 0.7 Ohm):
st_2-way_speaker_with_xover1.png


Not much change though.
 
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Arnandsway

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#88
To use this amp in bridged mode, they recommend a minimum of 8 Ohm. Would using a 4 Ohm sub be asking to much for this amp?

Edit: I see Amir tested it using 4 Ohm. Can I conclude then it's safe to use 4 Ohm?
 

A800

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#89
To use this amp in bridged mode, they recommend a minimum of 8 Ohm. Would using a 4 Ohm sub be asking to much for this amp?

Edit: I see Amir tested it using 4 Ohm. Can I conclude then it's safe to use 4 Ohm?
Probably.
But I would monitor the temperature.
 

restorer-john

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#90
To use this amp in bridged mode, they recommend a minimum of 8 Ohm. Would using a 4 Ohm sub be asking to much for this amp?

Edit: I see Amir tested it using 4 Ohm. Can I conclude then it's safe to use 4 Ohm?
If you bridge the amplifier, each channel 'sees' half the load impedance, so a 4 ohm subwoofer would be 'seen' as 2 ohms from each amplifier channel in a BTL pair.

Not a remotely good idea.
 

tomtoo

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#92
Hi.
I had to sign up to tell you that you want to stay away from the Behringer U-Phoria.
Although the measurements are somewhat good it has its "issues".

First of all the max. output level is very low much lower than other devices.
Second it will compress the output signal.
Third the output will be muddy and lifeless all over, highs, mids, lows you name it.

If you compare it to the inbuilt soundcard of a 370 EUR HP laptop (Realtek ALC 3227) the laptop soundcard will have at least 3 times the clarity, punch, liveliness, ... at the same output level.
Sad but true.

I have been shocked when I compared the 2 against each other.
The difference is HUGE.
Better stay away.

EDIT:
The Behringer A800 is nothing short of amazing for the price.

Thx! I wonder how this difference between measurement and sound can be explained?
 

Arnandsway

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#95
If you bridge the amplifier, each channel 'sees' half the load impedance, so a 4 ohm subwoofer would be 'seen' as 2 ohms from each amplifier channel in a BTL pair.

Not a remotely good idea.
Thanks, I won't be doing that then. Durability is key.
 

Rja4000

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#96
Thx! I wonder how this difference between measurement and sound can be explained?
I don't think the U Phoria was measured. Or was it?
Anyway, we also see measured problems with the Berhinger interface Amir tested, if you push the level "too" high...
 

oog747

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#98
You have to see the context. The target are professional speakers (PA) and here you will not find such exotic loads as in highend audio. AFAIK almost all passive PA speakers have 8 Ohm impedance spec and the amp maker has to expect that the user connects 2 of those in parallel, resulting in a 4 Ohm load spec. The pro user takes the spec into account and acts accordingly.
It looks to me, that Behringer is presenting A800 as more an "in-door/studio" device for monitoring and listening full range on a budget, than a "tank" to "scream loudly" outside over PA speakers. So that may assume wider range of more complex speakers being used for the purpose. Also Crown made XLS series (which feels more like a good dependable tank for outside) 2 Ohm stable "without even bragging about it too much". Probably they see the use for it in pro environment.

Anyways, my wild and probably wrong guess is, it's all down to cooling solution chosen to reduce noise inside, which led to other design decisions to reduce cost and in the end A800 probably can't safely and dependably handle the current. And this is Behringer's choice to make. It's just some pity for me as a user and looks bit strange in Behringer's presentation of the device.
 
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#99
Would be good to drive subs this way. Are there cheaper options for half a killowatt of power?
@amirm Has anyone mentioned Behringer's iNuke Amplifiers yet? They offer 1500W, 3000W, 6000W and even 12000W Amplifiers. I use an iNuke NU6000 to drive two 18" Dayton Ultimax sealed subs. I paid less than $400 for it. Audibly the bass is forceful and clean. and I have no complaints with reliability (over a year of 24/7 usage). People have benched it to provide up to 2000+ real world watts per channel for the 6000W unit.

I would love to see your measurements on this series of Amps since they are by far the cheapest Watts/$1 from a somewhat respectable company. I would hope that they perform similarly to the A800/A500 especially since the iNukes are much cheaper.
 
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Hello All,

I am glad to see this amplifier connected to a real load rather than just a resistor for testing.

I have been playing with this sort of stuff on my bench too. So far it has been an APx555 analyzer and an APx1701 acoustic test amplifier.

A couple of weeks ago I did some impedance and phase testing with the APx1701 amplifier on a Peerless 12 inch XLR subwoofer. You know the same sub used in Linkwitz’s Thor subwoofer.

I ran impedance and phase with the driver in air and attached to 2.2 cubic foot sealed box.

See the attached impedance, Phase plots and Wright parameters.

Thanks DT
Impedance Magnitude 12 Peerless XLS 2.PNG
Impedance Phase 12 Peerless XLS 2.PNG
Thiele-Small 12 Peerless XLS.PNG
 
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