BACCH4MAC Short Review / first impressions

[Zoomer]

Dr Choueiri has said that Theoretica is a very small company and does not have the ability to work on 2 software platforms.

I can understand that. What irks me is that the development of a fully functional Windows version has been excluded from the licensing deal with BACCHLabs. The only logic I can see in this is to protect their BACCH4Mac offering. So, it's not just not being able to serve the Windows market, they're willfully excluding it.

Unless you're willing to jump through all the hoops and shoulder ridiculous additional expenses, that is.

 

[mieswall]

There are several interesting features in B4M to fine-tune its behaviour, that i’m beginning to explore:
- mono correction settings. It seems the “center channel” is set by default at -3db. In some records dead center voices seem a bit over laid-back. I changed this setting to 0db and the presence of the singer is spectacularly changed.
- some old recods in the first years of Stereo have this “dual-mono” effect: instruments either at full right or left channel. B4M push them almost at 9 or 3 oclock. There is, though, a fader to control the amount of XTC desired.
Among other nice things There are also 30 band eq’s, a three way digital crossover, the eq settings you may play with the babyface mixer provided, and a very interesting binaural recording feature, to make your own short samples of binaural in your room using the in-ear mics. Edgar suggested me to try this, me walking and talking around my room to impress my friends with a sudden ghost of myself!

Regarding the mac issue: hard to believe this could be a reason to avoid B4M. Most of the time you install it (in fact, Edgar does it), and leave it unchanged. Almost like any appliance in your house.i do control my mac mini with a remote session in my ipad, using a google app. Just in case you want to convince yourself what you are listening is real, check it against normal stereo, and feel how your jaw drops.
B4M is an absolute game changer imho. Impossible to go back to normal stereo after listening it for a while. It would be as to go back to mono.

 

[Dialectic]

B4M is an absolute game changer imho. Impossible to go back to normal stereo after listening it for a while. It would be as to go back to mono.

This is how I've felt since I first heard it in 2015!

 

[STC]

I can understand that. What irks me is that the development of a fully functional Windows version has been excluded from the licensing deal with BACCHLabs. The only logic I can see in this is to protect their BACCH4Mac offering. So, it's not just not being able to serve the Windows market, they're willfully excluding it.

Unless you're willing to jump through all the hoops and shoulder ridiculous additional expenses, that is.

I am more inclined to believe that the coding was done with a MAC and they need someone to rewrite the code for Windows. That also means they have to reveal the secrets to another person. In my past experience with other XTC DSP, they cannot migrate to another OS due to the original platform for the code was in Windows.

Another reason could be the flexibility of MAC with virtual cables. This is freely and reliably can be implemented with MAC but it is sampling restricted and cumbersome with windows so routing to two programs is more feasible with MAC since head tracking is also involved.

 

[Zoomer]

the coding was done with a MAC and they need someone to rewrite the code for Windows.

True. My point was that the tech is (partly) licensed for Windows development already. There's more in the uBACCH now available for Windows thread, don't want to hijack this thread.

 

[STC]

True. My point was that the tech is (partly) licensed for Windows development already. There's more in the uBACCH now available for Windows thread, don't want to hijack this thread.

Thread 'uBACCH for Window - First attempt.'
https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/ubacch-for-window-first-attempt.47558/

 

[Nvk]

I am more inclined to believe that the coding was done with a MAC and they need someone to rewrite the code for Windows. That also means they have to reveal the secrets to another person. In my past experience with other XTC DSP, they cannot migrate to another OS due to the original platform for the code was in Windows.

Another reason could be the flexibility of MAC with virtual cables. This is freely and reliably can be implemented with MAC but it is sampling restricted and cumbersome with windows so routing to two programs is more feasible with MAC since head tracking is also involved.

Yes, but the problem is non of those routing programs are bit perfect. Do we hear that..? I dont know..

 

[doorofnight]

I haven't found a neat way to implement the Bacch Windows plugin into my system with Roon Core.

That's why I recently bought a mac mini. Installed Roon Core, Blackhole (to loop ubacch4dsp) and a USB module for my NAD M33, so I can connect from the MAC usb out to the USB input of my amplifier. SQ is excellent. I hear no disadvantages due to Blackhole (the digital cable between Roon and Bacch) and Roon is finally happy with the signal path: green, so high quality..

There are two small points that have nothing to do with the music playback:

1) Now in the beginning I need a screen to quickly switch Bacch on and off, and also a screen is handy for for updates, maintenance and other matters. But with normal listening, no screen is required, neither wanted by me.

(I can pass ubacch via BluOs, but then it is difficult to directly compare between bacch on and off)

2) Only for NAD M33 owners: no artwork on the big screen anymore

This being said: I love the SQ with ubacch4mac. It's not that cheap, but it is a big improvement.

 

[Keith_W]

I haven't found a neat way to implement the Bacch Windows plugin into my system with Roon Core.

This is because Roon refuses to implement VST plugin support despite many requests over the years. Do a search on their user forum

The solution is to use a convolver capable of hosting VST plugins. I can confirm that JRiver and Hang Loose Convolver will work. HQPlayer supposedly has VST plugin support as well, but I have never tried it. HQP is really expensive though.

 

[doorofnight]

I know this about Roon, and I see no development in the near future. I tried the VST plugin in Jriver and the ubacch plugin for Windows en Roon Core on my laptop. I made it work, but it was not a decent solution. This is why i choose for the bacch4mac solution. Expensive, but good.

 

[jimbill]

The very directional nature of the Sanders makes them more immune to room interactions. Dr Choueri has tested many speakers and the sanders are the most directional. He has made a custom rear wave absorber. I just use wall treatments. Even with my numbers my seating position is not ideal as I have a high backed leather sectional. Fortunately my spouse’s obsession with throw pillows and furs on the couch is helpful. My room is approximately 35ft in each direction and I have 9 ft ceilings in the basement room. My seating position is midway on one wall and 13-14 Ft from the other.

I notice on your bottom graph you get a green spike. I get the same on my graph and the poster above does too. Edgar told me it was probably because of the coffee table in front of my listening position. Now I wonder?

 

[Gwreck]

I notice on your bottom graph you get a green spike. I get the same on my graph and the poster above does too. Edgar told me it was probably because of the coffee table in front of my listening position. Now I wonder?

What frequency is the green spike at? Or is it the impulse response graph? I don’t have anything between me and the speakers. My XTC drops if I have anything behind my head.

 

[Dialectic]

The green trace on the impulse response charts is the time window for filter calibration. The longer the window, the farther to the right the green trace goes.

 

[Gwreck]

The green trace on the impulse response charts is the time window for filter calibration. The longer the window, the farther to the right the green trace goes.

He saw my graphs and said my impulse response was clean. I’m colorblind so I may not see green as you see it. I actually told Dr Choueiri that BACCH4mac needs a color blind mode.

 

[jimbill]

What frequency is the green spike at? Or is it the impulse response graph? I don’t have anything between me and the speakers. My XTC drops if I have anything behind my head.

Right about the same place as yours, 5.5. I wonder if it has anything to do with the crossover?

Also, on that last interview video, he mentioned recalibrating the microphones. I was getting similar XTC readings from both mikes, but now I'm getting readings where the right is lower by 7. Have you ever recalibrated?

 

[Dialectic]

He saw my graphs and said my impulse response was clean. I’m colorblind so I may not see green as you see it. I actually told Dr Choueiri that BACCH4mac needs a color blind mode.

The only green thing on the graphs is the time window for XTC filtering on the impulse plots. I'm sure that's why the apparent spike is on the same place for @jimbill, and no, it is not a frequency, it is milliseconds.

 

[Gwreck]

Right about the same place as yours, 5.5. I wonder if it has anything to do with the crossover?

Also, on that last interview video, he mentioned recalibrating the microphones. I was getting similar XTC readings from both mikes, but now I'm getting readings where the right is lower by 7. Have you ever recalibrated?

I have recalibrated the mics and my left one was adjusted by .34 db. I get different XTC right and left but my room is asymmetrical so I attribute it to that but is it usually 20+ db for each side or close.

 

[jimbill]

I'd like to make a listening suggestion for those who have the program.

The Temptations "Papa was a Rolling Stone" in Hi-rez.

Let me know what you think.

 

[Korppi12]

I opened another thread about the plugin vs the full bacch system:

Ubacch plugin vs full bacch4mac audiophile system

Question is how much more better experience you can get with full audiophile software versus the ubacch plugin? As i understand ubacch plugin is calculated based on single point speakers, possibly Genelec 8351. Somebody mentioned that they use 8351 at the their lab. So if i have 8351 or...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Since my money is tight, if somebody has tested both, would really want to know about the difference

 

[jimbill]

I opened another thread about the plugin vs the full bacch system:

Ubacch plugin vs full bacch4mac audiophile system

Question is how much more better experience you can get with full audiophile software versus the ubacch plugin? As i understand ubacch plugin is calculated based on single point speakers, possibly Genelec 8351. Somebody mentioned that they use 8351 at the their lab. So if i have 8351 or...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Since my money is tight, if somebody has tested both, would really want to know about the difference

I started with the basic then upgraded to the Audiophile. Edgar had told me that I was getting about 80% from the basic. If so, that is a very important 20%!

The head tracking makes such a difference. I'm using Martin Logan 13a's which have a definite sweet spot of about 8 inches. Now I have a sweet spot of about 3 feet, and I can make it bigger if I needed to. There is also more imaging and a wider soundstage.

He does offer a trial period. If you belong to Costco you can get a Mac and take it back, no questions asked, if you decide to not keep everything.