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Avantone Pro MixCube Monitor Review

Rate this speaker:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 169 83.3%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 15 7.4%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 4 2.0%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 15 7.4%

  • Total voters
    203

fredoamigo

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About these monitors, the question would be to know if Avantone (knowing their final use) conceive them for that and in this case it would be a kind of performance, or then, in another case, they are conceived sciament to be monitors of control and in this case it is rather annoying...personally I think of the first case.
 
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MaxwellsEq

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Hi everyone. This was my speaker. The reason I bought it was because of online reviews and the legendary status of the original Auratone, but primarily as a tool for improving my mixes.

The theory is that, being band-limited, the speaker acts as a filter to remove frequency ranges which 'translate' less. This holds true in many cases today although fewer due to the wide proliferation of high-quality earbuds and improved engineering. Beyond translation, humans are most perceptive to the bandwidth from 400-6khz and this speaker at least contains that. Another benefit to this speaker is that, assuming you use just one, it also instantly puts your mix into mono; which is again a characteristic of both low and high quality club/PA systems alike. Further, mix engineers tend to listen at low volumes. Indeed, there are reasons to use a lower reference level than 85dB: prolonged exposure, lower distortion, ease of level balancing (a dominant task in audio mixing), as well as the psychoacoustic impact of nearby boundaries in rooms smaller than 10,00ft3 (283m3); the size of room for which the 85dB reference standard was developed. To the point, this speaker does have fairly low distortion at the kinds of levels a mix engineer might use them at. At 86dB, besides the resonance at 2.7kHz, it's below 1% distortion for any individual component from 250Hz up and 3% down to 60Hz; although it's also down 20dB by then. This is not too far outside the broadcast GRADE standard for harmonic distortion requirements of professional loudspeakers - though that standard is for 90dB at 1m. Lastly, it is a sealed design with the characteristically soft roll off same as a NS-10 or ATC SCM25A with the bunghole closed.

Band-limited, low-distortion, mono, sealed secondary reference. Some of you have commented how these are not present in high-end studios. This may be for commercial facilities but anecdotally less true for producer studios. Amon Tobin can be seen in this Neumann promo video for their KH 420/KH 750 system saying that he begins mixes on the mixcubes before going over to the mains. Incidentally, this is also my process. In this video by Rupert Neve audio, deadmau5 can be seen with not only ATC soffit-mounted mains but also NS-10s and two Auratones (modern actual Auratones are available today though the Behringer C50A, panned by Sound on Sound appears currently unavailable).

Now, this is not a treatise in defense of this speaker. Indeed, I sent it in because I want to look past adjectives, anecdotes, and the rampant hazing in the audio community [note that I am CaptainNovember7 on gearspace and was 'removed' from that discussion despite being personally attacked numerous times and conducting myself with the most professionalism I could muster (though that might not be much)]. In simply requesting for a nearfield scan of the updated ATC SCM25A Pro mk2, I was practically overwhelmed by the outpouring of purely subjective statements from several members. Not only was I attacked but so was the entire ASR community. I am not playing sides here, I seem destined to be at odds wherever I go. Point being, yes this speaker objectively sucks worse than anything I've seen. That said, similar to the ATC speaker, its beauty might lie in its imperfection. To wit, I've heard multiple claims that Genelec and Neumann speakers 'don't translate' or are 'too clean', etc. My stance is to have both - measurements and subjective perceptions - and to weigh both carefully before dumping into the soup of your life.

I hope my contribution is clear: let's not rest at either measurements or subjectivity. Amir says he recommends this for no purpose. If you were to purely look at this data then he is unassailable in his position. ATC owners claim that they are expensive, yes, but are unsurpassed for their intended purpose - creating mixes Their measurements certainly don't bear out their price so maybe there's something to their subjectivists claim. After all, placebo or not, if they're objectively performing better at their professional goals then that is a metric that should not be ignored.

Below is a measurement of this mixcube in my last (treated) room showing +-5dB from 80Hz-8kHz. Subjectively, I trust(ed) this speaker from 90Hz-10kHz. It was placed semi-center and within 1m distance of my listening position behind my monitor which I believe was on a VESA mount at the time. In other words, it's more-or-less a real-world example of what you might hear if you were to use it. And, for fun, I also made a PG-13 rated semi-nsfw video on why you should buy this speaker. It's several years old and a lot of the information is bad but it's what I believed at the time.

Thank you,
Michael Carrillo
Your use case is exactly the same as the Auratones used in the top of mixing desks I worked on. They help ensure a mix is "safe". They are never used at high volumes. Almost all commercial music will have been checked through a speaker like this.
 

Robbo99999

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Nasty Nasty!
 

RF Air

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As mentioned by others, Avatone are a sort of "reference low-fidelity confidence monitor." That's their purpose in life. It's a reliable and consistent device for producers and engineers to evaluate what their work is liable to sound like on the crappy speakers built into your TV set or the original equipment, lowball factory speakers in your car.
Yeah, I have heard this quantifier before, but I just could not see the benefit. Maybe 20 years ago, but today, I don't see the benefit. You can simulate this with DP and still have a reference Speaker capable of the real reference. I know for TV post production, they are not used, at least with my limited exposure and experience in the past 20 years.
 

RF Air

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Production ceased in 2004, a year before the founder of the company died. Years later his grandson took over the business. In 2014 he launched the new generation of Auratones. In the meantime companies like Behringer and Avantone had started to produce copies of these speakers.

Initially the Auratones were cheap speakers with not a lot of alternatives in that price range.
I have a family member who is a Professional Musician and Producer. He used the Behringer Speakers and would glowingly justify the need for targeting a Master Mix recording to sound great with each environment as if it were the key to a successful recording. It always sounded wrong and I was never comfortable with the discussion, I think his Music Store sold him on the concept bias to move a product.
 
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Koeitje

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As mentioned by others, Avatone are a sort of "reference low-fidelity confidence monitor." That's their purpose in life. It's a reliable and consistent device for producers and engineers to evaluate what their work is liable to sound like on the crappy speakers built into your TV set or the original equipment, lowball factory speakers in your car.
Ok, but why do they ask so much money for that?
 

uwotm8

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Just terribad (and I was always sceptical about such FR-cube concept).
However, the point that Avantones may be used as a "generic bad speaker reference" seems reasonable.
Edit: not just "generic bad" but rather typical TV, portable speaker, ceiling speakers etc etc. No bass, no treble:)
 
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RF Air

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Hi everyone. This was my speaker. The reason I bought it was because of online reviews and the legendary status of the original Auratone, but primarily as a tool for improving my mixes.

The theory is that, being band-limited, the speaker acts as a filter to remove frequency ranges which 'translate' less. This holds true in many cases today although fewer due to the wide proliferation of high-quality earbuds and improved engineering. Beyond translation, humans are most perceptive to the bandwidth from 400-6khz and this speaker at least contains that. Another benefit to this speaker is that, assuming you use just one, it also instantly puts your mix into mono; which is again a characteristic of both low and high quality club/PA systems alike. Further, mix engineers tend to listen at low volumes. Indeed, there are reasons to use a lower reference level than 85dB: prolonged exposure, lower distortion, ease of level balancing (a dominant task in audio mixing), as well as the psychoacoustic impact of nearby boundaries in rooms smaller than 10,00ft3 (283m3); the size of room for which the 85dB reference standard was developed. To the point, this speaker does have fairly low distortion at the kinds of levels a mix engineer might use them at. At 86dB, besides the resonance at 2.7kHz, it's below 1% distortion for any individual component from 250Hz up and 3% down to 60Hz; although it's also down 20dB by then. This is not too far outside the broadcast GRADE standard for harmonic distortion requirements of professional loudspeakers - though that standard is for 90dB at 1m. Lastly, it is a sealed design with the characteristically soft roll off same as a NS-10 or ATC SCM25A with the bunghole closed.

Band-limited, low-distortion, mono, sealed secondary reference. Some of you have commented how these are not present in high-end studios. This may be for commercial facilities but anecdotally less true for producer studios. Amon Tobin can be seen in this Neumann promo video for their KH 420/KH 750 system saying that he begins mixes on the mixcubes before going over to the mains. Incidentally, this is also my process. In this video by Rupert Neve audio, deadmau5 can be seen with not only ATC soffit-mounted mains but also NS-10s and two Auratones (modern actual Auratones are available today though the Behringer C50A, panned by Sound on Sound appears currently unavailable).

Now, this is not a treatise in defense of this speaker. Indeed, I sent it in because I want to look past adjectives, anecdotes, and the rampant hazing in the audio community [note that I am CaptainNovember7 on gearspace and was 'removed' from that discussion despite being personally attacked numerous times and conducting myself with the most professionalism I could muster (though that might not be much)]. In simply requesting for a nearfield scan of the updated ATC SCM25A Pro mk2, I was practically overwhelmed by the outpouring of purely subjective statements from several members. Not only was I attacked but so was the entire ASR community. I am not playing sides here, I seem destined to be at odds wherever I go. Point being, yes this speaker objectively sucks worse than anything I've seen. That said, similar to the ATC speaker, its beauty might lie in its imperfection. To wit, I've heard multiple claims that Genelec and Neumann speakers 'don't translate' or are 'too clean', etc. My stance is to have both - measurements and subjective perceptions - and to weigh both carefully before dumping into the soup of your life.

I hope my contribution is clear: let's not rest at either measurements or subjectivity. Amir says he recommends this for no purpose. If you were to purely look at this data then he is unassailable in his position. ATC owners claim that they are expensive, yes, but are unsurpassed for their intended purpose - creating mixes Their measurements certainly don't bear out their price so maybe there's something to their subjectivists claim. After all, placebo or not, if they're objectively performing better at their professional goals then that is a metric that should not be ignored.

Below is a measurement of this mixcube in my last (treated) room showing +-5dB from 80Hz-8kHz. Subjectively, I trust(ed) this speaker from 90Hz-10kHz. It was placed semi-center and within 1m distance of my listening position behind my monitor which I believe was on a VESA mount at the time. In other words, it's more-or-less a real-world example of what you might hear if you were to use it. And, for fun, I also made a PG-13 rated semi-nsfw video on why you should buy this speaker. It's several years old and a lot of the information is bad but it's what I believed at the time.

Thank you,
Michael Carrillo
I think it's great you have this skill and passion for what you produce and for the product. The menagerie of products for production are a great option for discovery and development. I don't doubt your skill or choices, it's great to explore. These speakers will give you something unique and perhaps inspiring.

My opinion is rooted in a different corner where fidelity is key to the nuance of creating something comfortable. Your goal is quite fascinating because you are more open minded to explore and develop around different set-ups. I have nothing but respect for your creativity and outside the box thinking. Thanks for sharing your Speakers and perspectives with the Forum!
 

tktran303

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They exist because of legacy (historical reasons) and reputation (people don’t have time to get wise, it’s easier to be safe and go with what the established colleagues are doing)
Yes when the Auratones were around stock car stereos were horrible; with their 4.5”drivers with tiny magnets, no sub-bass in the doors of cars with their whizzer cones. For shit and giggles @amirm should measure things like this; you know, from a 1973 Ford Escort, to see how far we’ve come.

The modern recording studio should be equipped with EarPods ( those white Apple earphones are probably the most popular earphone in C21), UE Boom (probably the most popular Bluetooth speaker), and a laptop or LCD TV. Because my bet is that cumulatively. These 3 devices account for a majority of how people are enjoying their music.

Are these the best audio devices? No, but if you can get it to sound nice on these devices they probably sound good enough for the consumer market.

As for the recording tech; (s)he ain’t a god(dess). It’s a job. Not everyone is Bob Katz who says tuck it; I will only do amazing recordings on my full frequency, full dynamic range 5’ floor standers and multi subs EQed in an acoustically treated room for audiophiles with disposal incomes.

Most people have to earn a living, do recordings for tv ads, jingles. Many musicians have second or third jobs.
 
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Huang Jerry

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Some say that the point with mixing using Auratone (and Avantone for that matter) is that it simulates the worst of consumers devices, and if you can make a song sound good on that, your mix is going to sound good on anything.

Well, I made my worst mix ever with these, which sounded alright on Avantone, because I cannot hear of anything below 100Hz through them.
 

tktran303

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I dunno…

@amirm
Would you rather listen to music through your TV?

I think you would!
 

sarumbear

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I hope my contribution is clear: let's not rest at either measurements or subjectivity. Amir says he recommends this for no purpose. If you were to purely look at this data then he is unassailable in his position. ATC owners claim that they are expensive, yes, but are unsurpassed for their intended purpose - creating mixes Their measurements certainly don't bear out their price so maybe there's something to their subjectivists claim. After all, placebo or not, if they're objectively performing better at their professional goals then that is a metric that should not be ignored.
Audiophoolery works by fooling your senses. There is no objectively better in something subjective.
 

dasdoing

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it simulates the worst of consumers devices,

it obviously does not.

the point is focousing on the midrange, as this is where 90% of the magic of mixing happens. every single instrument/voice fights for space in the midrange. after you get the midrange right, bass and treble is almost just a case of adjusting levels
 

tktran303

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they really only make sense if you lowpass those terrible resonances




I am asking this for years.


Time is money: just flick the switch and audition. No need to flip around with EQ. We’re talking about the 1960s right? Hardly anyone had any measurement equipment. And you think parametric EQs were around? Remember the No-no with EQ? It caused dreadful phase shifts.
 

tktran303

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The reason is simply this- the need to SELL music to consumers.

“ Ninety-five percent of people listen to music in their car or on a cheap home stereo; 5 percent may have better systems; and maybe 1 percent have a $20,000 stereo. So if it doesn't sound good on something small, what's the point? You can mix in front of these huge, beautiful, pristine, $10,000 powered monitors all you want. But no one else has these monitors, so you're more likely to end up with a translation problem.”

Chris Lord-Alge


People are happy to spend that extra $10K for a “better” motor vehicle instead of the vanilla model, and on average they do that every 7-10 years.

But a $10K stereo that lasts half a lifetime?

Nah…
 
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