Audyssey Manual Calibration “OCA’s REW + Audyssey Awesomeness”

[pdodo2003]

Hello to everyone . I hope you can give me an idea of how to approach my situation . I played a lot with OCA's EVO from the beginning . It was simple because i had one sub , but now i have one sub and i bought a bass shaker . So how would i approach this , because in measuring with audissey my bass shaker doesnt produce sound . I found a way around this by simply connecting the same subwoofer to my output 1 and 2 on my Denon X3500H receiver .
Any regards about this situation ? How can i be sure it makes what is supossed to do ? Because i kind of fool EVO saying that i have 2 subs but i dont have just one ... Is this the correct way ?
Because i get this error :
10:44:32 PM [WARNING!] SWMIX: 3.38 meters, please SWITCH this subwoofer's POLARITY!
10:44:32 PM [WARNING!] You will need to switch polarity of EACH of your 2 subwoofers!
But i dont have this option, possibility, because i exit from SUB Output 1 with 1 RCA for sub 1 and 1 RCA for bass shaker . I think i get this error, because it's the same sub and the same place , but i cant think of what i could do .

Denon X3500H - Windows - Android app

I thought i try the nexus version because i have a umik 1 mic , but for now i dont really get everything i have to do in it ,so i am postponing it for now , and instead try as allways the EVO version .

Thank you

 

[Tony1919]

Hello to everyone . I hope you can give me an idea of how to approach my situation . I played a lot with OCA's EVO from the beginning . It was simple because i had one sub , but now i have one sub and i bought a bass shaker . So how would i approach this , because in measuring with audissey my bass shaker doesnt produce sound . I found a way around this by simply connecting the same subwoofer to my output 1 and 2 on my Denon X3500H receiver .
Any regards about this situation ? How can i be sure it makes what is supossed to do ? Because i kind of fool EVO saying that i have 2 subs but i dont have just one ... Is this the correct way ?
Because i get this error :
10:44:32 PM [WARNING!] SWMIX: 3.38 meters, please SWITCH this subwoofer's POLARITY!
10:44:32 PM [WARNING!] You will need to switch polarity of EACH of your 2 subwoofers!
But i dont have this option, possibility, because i exit from SUB Output 1 with 1 RCA for sub 1 and 1 RCA for bass shaker . I think i get this error, because it's the same sub and the same place , but i cant think of what i could do .

Denon X3500H - Windows - Android app

I thought i try the nexus version because i have a umik 1 mic , but for now i dont really get everything i have to do in it ,so i am postponing it for now , and instead try as allways the EVO version .

Thank you

I think you run audyssey as normal then you do your thing in OCA Evo/REW program and then set up your bass shaker once everything is finished.
The 3.38 meter warning is because the EVO cannot do over 3 meters? I get this message when I use a second amp to run the front speakers using the pre outputs on a marantz 7015.

There are some good videos on youtube showing how to set up a bass shaker maybe if you watch them you might spot what you are doing wrong or need to change to get it to fit in to your set up. search youtube for "how to set up bass shaker"

 

[Hyacin]

I didn't understand your question. Is this about Nexus filters and you want to go full range?

Sorry, yeah, that was a long winded question and not terribly clear.

No, I'm talking about Audyssey channel corrections, and avoiding the steep rises at the edges (I thought they were drop-offs, but I guess I was thinking about the measurements, not the corrections) ... essentially, rather than this -

I'd like it to look a bit more like this -

(or a rolloff instead of this silly steep drop at the high end)


The spike especially at the low end is simply "the speakers can't do those frequencies", so rather than boosting them crazy amounts, I'd rather just leave them alone.

I'm guessing it's something _similar_ at the high end? Or maybe the speakers are capable but the mic just wasn't picking it up well? These were old UMIK measurements I'm sure.

Almost like a rule, "don't bother trying to correct if it's off by more than 12 dB" or something, as it's probably just a limitation then that we shouldn't bother with.


Related but separate question - I'm seeing now that the correction filters stop at 20k - is there a rolloff back to 0 dB within the receiver after that? Or does it just abruptly drop off? I'm guessing the above filter would have absolutely no impact on supersonic stuff, at say, 30 kHz?

 

[OCA]

It's not a boost at the HF, Evo does not boost any frequency and doesn't even cut above 250-300Hz. This is the anti reference filter that just reverses the high frequency roll off 1 of Audyssey which comes pre-applied with your measurements. Unfortunately, it really is about a 20dB drop above 20kHz for no apparent reason.

 

[Hyacin]

It's not a boost at the HF, Evo does not boost any frequency and doesn't even cut above 250-300Hz. This is the anti reference filter that just reverses the high frequency roll off 1 of Audyssey which comes pre-applied with your measurements.

I'm using the old 'Ultimate' method, but I'm guessing it's the same? Good to know it's just to counter that roll off

Unfortunately, it really is about a 20dB drop above 20kHz for no apparent reason.

OMG really, built in I'm sure? Any idea if that's ALL Audyssey, or would, say, an AV10 where they're really trying to push that HiFi audiophile angle (which tends to include a lot of emphasis and even dedicated hardware for that supersonic stuff) possibly not have it?


Edit: You know, I guess it matters a lot less than I think as movie/TV sources likely don't have any content about 20 kHz or so anyway, and the things that should I'll probably be listening to in "Direct" mode anyway.

 

[OCA]

I'm using the old 'Ultimate' method, but I'm guessing it's the same? Good to know it's just to counter that roll off


OMG really, built in I'm sure? Any idea if that's ALL Audyssey, or would, say, an AV10 where they're really trying to push that HiFi audiophile angle (which tends to include a lot of emphasis and even dedicated hardware for that supersonic stuff) possibly not have it?


Edit: You know, I guess it matters a lot less than I think as movie/TV sources likely don't have any content about 20 kHz or so anyway, and the things that should I'll probably be listening to in "Direct" mode anyway.

Most Marantz have an additional soft roll off. New models can switch it off with filter 2, older ones are stuck with it. Nexus has an anti filter for that, too.

 

[Hyacin]

Nexus has an anti filter for that, too.

<3 <3 <3

Can't wait to try it!!

 

[TheZebraKilledDarwin]

Most Marantz have an additional soft roll off. New models can switch it off with filter 2, older ones are stuck with it. Nexus has an anti filter for that, too.

Some time ago I suggested a solution that would make it possible, to trick Audyssey even further, and make it correct a faked speaker response AND be able to switch between the Reference curve selection with the HF rollof and the Flat curve, without the rolloff.

Today I found a little time and it seems it is possible:

What you see here, is (ratbuddyssey for quick check if the injected data is working as intended) a EQed perfect speaker response injected into ADY!
The peak you see as speaker measurement, is a (fully deliberately set EQ (58 Hz, +12 dB, q 10, mimicking a measured room mode) applied to a perfect speaker response.

If loaded into MultEQ Audyssey will be interpreting this fake measured speaker response as a real response and will apply it's correction torwards removing the peak.

Intended benefits:

1. USER defines what Audyssey will correct (but not with the custom target curve, but with faked speaker measurements):
Only the filters the user wants, REW will apply. Everything else remains untouched as perfect speaker.
For example: if you only want to correct to 300 Hz, you only apply the EQs you want in REW to 300 Hz (in the example above a 58 Hz room mode was simulated and is all that Audyssey will see).

2. No longer unuseable FLAT curve. It should be possible to switch between FLAT correction (for music without hf rolloff) and Reference, with the hf rolloff.

3. You additionally even have the custom target curve available for the Reference-curve-mode, for further adjustments.

4. You are free to apply any EQ curves with/without house curve as you wish as fake speaker response in REW.


If there is interest I could post the detailed step by step procedure.

 

[OCA]

Some time ago I suggested a solution that would make it possible, to trick Audyssey even further, and make it correct a faked speaker response AND be able to switch between the Reference curve selection with the HF rollof and the Flat curve, without the rolloff.

Today I found a little time and it seems it is possible:

View attachment 405197


What you see here, is (ratbuddyssey for quick check if the injected data is working as intended) a EQed perfect speaker response injected into ADY!
The peak you see as speaker measurement, is a (fully deliberately set EQ (58 Hz, +12 dB, q 10, mimicking a measured room mode) applied to a perfect speaker response.

If loaded into MultEQ Audyssey will be interpreting this fake measured speaker response as a real response and will apply it's correction torwards removing the peak.

Intended benefits:

1. USER defines what Audyssey will correct (but not with the custom target curve, but with faked speaker measurements):
Only the filters the user wants, REW will apply. Everything else remains untouched as perfect speaker.
For example: if you only want to correct to 300 Hz, you only apply the EQs you want in REW to 300 Hz (in the example above a 58 Hz room mode was simulated and is all that Audyssey will see).

2. No longer unuseable FLAT curve. It should be possible to switch between FLAT correction (for music without hf rolloff) and Reference, with the hf rolloff.

3. You additionally even have the custom target curve available for the Reference-curve-mode, for further adjustments.

4. You are free to apply any EQ curves with/without house curve as you wish as fake speaker response in REW.


If there is interest I could post the detailed step by step procedure.

You have to distinguish models with Cirrus Logic DSP chips for perfect speaker response. It needs to be an inverted mic calibration file.

 

[TheZebraKilledDarwin]

You have to distinguish models with Cirrus Logic DSP chips for perfect speaker response. It needs to be an inverted mic calibration file.

Sure, no problem. My method allows any number and all kind of eq curves to be merged with the perfect speaker.

 

[Omartian]

Just ran the script again after adding some acoustic panels.

Initially, I wanted to keep sub polarity as-is (already calibrated 4 subs w/minidsp) and set all speakers to small prior to running the script.

Received this error - it's not possible to align subs despite all attempts (it then set front xover to 40)
-please check sub for cause of delay
-Optimization will continue applying maximum possible delay to your sub(s) but the final calibration will not be optimal!

I then ran it w/"keep fronts small" checked but left polarity unchecked. As expected, it said distance was 7.2 m and wanted me to switch polarity. In Mini-dsp, i have subs 1, 2, and 4 at 0 degrees, and sub 3 inverted.

1. Would -15 to -10db on the receiver be considered low listening level to enable dynEQ? I'm assuming not and using the master file.
2. To reverse polarity like the script wants, would i just invert 1, 2, and 4, and put 3 back to 0 degrees on my minidsp?
3. One line said, "set bass extraction lpf to 110". I assume that's the LPF for LFE setting, right?
4. On the EQ tab on REW, should the house curve be set to full-range instead of SW?

I'll take a listen and see, i'd prefer to set front's to large but will see

 

[Kayshot]

1. Would -15 to -10db on the receiver be considered low listening level to enable dynEQ? I'm assuming not and using the master file.
2. To reverse polarity like the script wants, would i just invert 1, 2, and 4, and put 3 back to 0 degrees on my minidsp?
3. One line said, "set bass extraction lpf to 110". I assume that's the LPF for LFE setting, right?
4. On the EQ tab on REW, should the house curve be set to full-range instead of SW?

1.) No, I believe -15dB is 85dB or something.
2.) If it asks you to invert, then just flip the inversion on all subs in MiniDSP. So if 1 was inverted, un-invert. If 2 was not inverted, invert it. etc;
3.) Bass extraction lpf is only a setting in newer receivers. For old receivers, you want to set the crossover for the fronts to 110 in that case, make sure fronts are large, and bass is in LFE+Main mode
4.) You should set it to "none".

 

[Omartian]

1.) No, I believe -15dB is 85dB or something.
2.) If it asks you to invert, then just flip the inversion on all subs in MiniDSP. So if 1 was inverted, un-invert. If 2 was not inverted, invert it. etc;
3.) Bass extraction lpf is only a setting in newer receivers. For old receivers, you want to set the crossover for the fronts to 110 in that case, make sure fronts are large, and bass is in LFE+Main mode
4.) You should set it to "none".

thanks. do you have any other evidence for #3? a quick google search makes it seem like basse extraction lpf is same as lpf for lfe. For #4, i was just confused bc OCA has it set to SW. I didn't know if the script tries to match the house curve from 20-200hz or all the way passed 20k hz

 

[Kayshot]

thanks. do you have any other evidence for #3? a quick google search makes it seem like basse extraction lpf is same as lpf for lfe. For #4, i was just confused bc OCA has it set to SW. I didn't know if the script tries to match the house curve from 20-200hz or all the way passed 20k hz

Likely no evidence that will convince you if my prior comment wasn't enough. Research how the crossover frequency for speakers work when they are set to large with LFE+Main active. Then look up how bass extraction LPF is supposed to work. You'll see they act the same, and that neither of them function like a lowpass filter on your LFE would.

And yea that would confuse me for #4, but I do recall on the main thread over at AVS that OCA mentioned that Nexus will disregard that setting entirely anyway (whether subwoofer, none, etc; Back on the older versions of EVO, you needed to set it to "none" instead of subwoofer to avoid a bug. Though even back then, it didn't effect the end frequency for the script.

 

[Omartian]

Likely no evidence that will convince you if my prior comment wasn't enough. Research how the crossover frequency for speakers work when they are set to large with LFE+Main active. Then look up how bass extraction LPF is supposed to work. You'll see they act the same, and that neither of them function like a lowpass filter on your LFE would.

And yea that would confuse me for #4, but I do recall on the main thread over at AVS that OCA mentioned that Nexus will disregard that setting entirely anyway (whether subwoofer, none, etc; Back on the older versions of EVO, you needed to set it to "none" instead of subwoofer to avoid a bug. Though even back then, it didn't effect the end frequency for the script.

sorry i doubted you, i reran the script and it says the same thing. I have fronts as large, switched xover to 110 but what do I put the lpf for life at? 110 as well?

 

[PeterNL]

Now Live !!!

 

[johnp98]

Now Live !!!

I am very curious to try this out. Hopefully I will have some time soon!

Do people recommend following the A1 Evo Nexus videos / guidelines for how to take the measurements best?

 

[goldark]

Now Live !!!

How does this improve upon the sound quality of A1 Evo? It wasn't obvious from watching the video.

 

[tjcinnamon]

How does this improve upon the sound quality of A1 Evo? It wasn't obvious from watching the video.

Agreed. When I get some time, I’ll dig into the script

 

[antcollinet]

Can anyone point me to a tutorial that explains how to take the measurements (I understand with EVO onwards you do it with REW)

Also - can it be done on a Mac? I notice there is a .bat script that must be run to read the config out of the AVR. Presumably that is windows only. It'l be a pain in the ass if I have to lug down my (now unused) tower PC to put it next to the AVR.

Ta Muchly.