AudioQuest Wind High-end Cable Review

[GuidoK]

is to see in the most common scenario people use them

.....
that capacitance is a factor here when we can't even measure its effect up to 200 kHz bandwidth.

That depends on what the most common scenario is

 

[amirm]

That depends on what the most common scenario is

I can assure you it is not a turntable.

 

[mansr]

We are not having a "scientific discussion." You get thrown out of the room if you think anything about these cables involves "science." The idea of the testing, and that is all it is, testing, is to see in the most common scenario people use them, does it impact, noise, distortion, frequency response, or level. Turned out it picks more noise. Other than that, this was a black box test so it made no sense to try to characterize the cable itself.

Even when highly zoomed in, frequency response does not change whatsoever:

So I doubt very much -- as a matter of science -- that capacitance is a factor here when we can't even measure its effect up to 200 kHz bandwidth.

How high can you measure? It would be mildly interesting to see what happens up to 200 MHz or so, like in that comparison I posted a while ago.

 

[solderdude]

Don't know how you come up with this numbers! Groundloop source Impedance can be verry low in same order of magnitude as shield Impedance
(They can be heavenly frequency dependent that's why i'm emphasizing Impedance)

It is quite obvious you have never done any EMC testing nor understand ground loops completely. Of course ground loop currents are frequency dependent.

Therefore more audiophiles will be feeling confirmed in there believes that there is some special magic something that can't be measured.

There will always be people thinking this. Regardless what measurements or words Amir uses those people will not change their mind.
The goal here is to inform.

and there output impedance is certainly way lower and more restive than say a phono cartridge or a transformer.

I talked about line level. Why would the output resistance of a transformer be high ?
Line level, MC to MM, output transformer ?
Any idea what the source resistance is of an MC cartridge ? (not the load resistance ?)

Here is a "measurement" i made, showing another related and glossed over effect of cables.
Some dielectric materials seems to be triboelectric or have piezoelectric effect.
Actually im not sure but matter of fact is the tested Cat5E is microphonic.
Rubbing, bending and hitting the cable makes Noise.
Recognized this problem under real world condition in my real world.

This is only an issue when very high impedances are present and the voltages are very low. Also it takes quite some force a cable lying stationary won't create audible noise by itself. It may be an issue with microphones and sensors but not for home audio (who would use cat5e for phono ?).
As soon as you have a source resistance below a few hundred Ohm nothing of these tribo-electric voltages will remain.
It's a non issue in most home audio reproduction applications.

Cables running alongside mains cables or in close proximity of power transformers is more of an issue.

For me a little bit of common mode noise current therefore does not seem to be a like a totally made up test.

How audible common mode noise becomes is more of a PCB layout issue (especially ground planes and connectors) than a cable issue.

Any interlink cable that is said to have a sound signature is nonsense. They can have poor shielding or be intermittent or other defect.
Speaker cables, microphone cables, TT cables, headphone cables, digital cables all have other challenges depending on how and where they are used.

The cable in question is clearly snake-oil.

 

[Lambda]

You get thrown out of the room if you think anything about these cables involves "science."

To be Completely clear here. I do not think those cables are ANY good, they are a complete scam!
Like every cable of this kind costing over lets say 20$

But pretending that the frequency response (and noise and distortion) tells the whole story and "cable is cable" is also inaccurate.

Noise rejection over frequency for E feld, H feld and common mode current for example would be more revealing i guess?

black box test so it made no sense to try to characterize the cable itself.

That way the results are only true for the tested scenario, And not transferable to the high impedance source example.
(eg. Phono or passive preamp )

that capacitance is a factor here when we can't even measure its effect up to 200 kHz bandwidth.

Well i did not explicitly mention that it is a factor here because of the low source impedance and the short cables.
But do you agree that with a high source impedance and longer, thinner, worse cables it can be a factor.
And do you agree that with (high)common mode current the cable (screen) impedance can be factor?

 

[GuidoK]

Like every cable of this kind costing over lets say 20$

Actually it's quite difficult to find a ready made low capacitance cable for that price where the manufacturer lists the capacitance. I only know of 1 manufacturer in that price range that does that for their rca interlinks (a german manufacturer I believe).
(making one for little money is very easy of course, most pro audio microphone cable is fine as (dynamic) microphones suffer from the same effect as MM/MI cartridges, and pro audio manufacturers usually give the specific capacitance of their cable, but not many consumers know how to solder or dont want to..).

 

[SIY]

Actually it's quite difficult to find a ready made low capacitance cable for that price where the manufacturer lists the capacitance. I only know of 1 manufacturer in that price range that does that for their rca interlinks (a german manufacturer I believe).
(making one for little money is very easy of course, most pro audio microphone cable is fine as (dynamic) microphones suffer from the same effect as MM/MI cartridges, and pro audio manufacturers usually give the specific capacitance of their cable, but not many consumers know how to solder or dont want to..).

Depends on your definition of "quite difficult." This one took me almost 40 seconds of searching.

 

[GuidoK]

Depends on your definition of "quite difficult." This one took me almost 40 seconds of searching.

it took me only 1 second to see that it's not $20...

(and sadly shipping for me is another $20 for that cable. Specs are fine though)

 

[SIY]

it took me only 1 second to see that it's not $20...

That was Lambda's restriction, not yours. $19 each. And very high quality.

 

[Lambda]

The cable in question is clearly snake-oil.

100% agree

How audible common mode noise becomes is more of a PCB layout issue (especially ground planes and connectors) than a cable issue.

Don’t think we talking about the same thing.

Pleases allow me to make an crude practical Example

just measured measured 200µA AC RMS from 5V USB power supply to mains ground
And random RCA to 3,5mm cable measured with 27Ohms!
one of his kind

0.2mA over 27ohm gives 0.0054V or -43.dBu
Charging my phone while using it to playback on my grounded system would add noise at ~-43.dBu if i use this crappy cable!?

This is only an issue when very high impedances are present and the voltages are very low. Also it takes quite some force a cable lying stationary won't create audible noise by itself. It may be an issue with microphones and sensors but not for home audio (who would use cat5e for phono ?).

Did you reed the description for the test?
No Phono signal
It was tested with a ~"600ohm" DI box and also shorted in both cases its its audible.

Why would the output resistance of a transformer be high

My line level 1:1 audio transformers have about 150ohm at DC. that is on both sides so ac impedance is in the order of >300Ohm.

Of course ground loop currents are frequency dependent.

Well after your wild guss of 50-100ohm i was not so sure that this is clear.
to make sure we talk about the same thing
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erdschleife#/media/Datei:Erdschleife_Sender_Empfänger.svg

I don't see how 50ohm seems reasonable in this case since Safty Earth ground is mandatory low impedance.

 

[GuidoK]

That was Lambda's restriction, not yours.

for that price

eehhhhmmmmm I think you miss the point?

$19 each. And very high quality.

Your interlink is $38.75, not $19.

 

[Chrispy]

That was Lambda's restriction, not yours. $19 each. And very high quality.

It appears to be one cable set, unless you're going mono?

 

[Koeitje]

If you are worried about noise, why are you using RCA?

 

[SIY]

Your interlink is $38.75, not $19.

That's for the pair.

 

[Lambda]

@SIY @Chrispy @GuidoK
Don't argue about 20$ if someone thinks for a special application its worth 40$ to him tarts cool with me.

it's quite difficult to find a ready made low capacitance cable for that price where the manufacturer lists the capacitance.

For me ready mad is not as Important. If i want low capacitance for cheap i use 75ohm antenna cable

 

[mansr]

Pleases allow me to make an crude practical Example

just measured measured 200µA AC RMS from 5V USB power supply to mains ground
And random RCA to 3,5mm cable measured with 27Ohms!
one of his kind

Are you sure that cable isn't broken? I found three similar-looking ones in my cable box. All measure 0.4 Ω, except for one of the "left" wires that varies wildly if I wiggle the RCA plug a little. I suspect yours might have the same problem.

 

[GuidoK]

That's for the pair.

It's a stereo cable. Read the description in the amazon offer.
You have to pay $38.75, not $19.
Mono is no good unless you only play 78's

 

[Chrispy]

It would never occur to me to shop for a single one....mono was pretty much gone even when I was a kid.

 

[Lambda]

@mansr
Mine is quite long! like maybe 5-10m and its not even Copper its slightly magnetic and burns sparkling. so
copper clad steel or something.

its so crappy the RCA pins are metalized plastic and if your not carfull it braks off...

i intentionally chose the worst cable.
But i don't see why this would stop it from measuring good and flat

 

[SIY]

Mono is quite fashionable these days amongst the horn/DHT set.

In any case, if it were me and I was using single ended phono (mine runs balanced) and wanted to keep the price rock-bottom, I'd go with something like this. Foamed polyolefin dielectric will give almost no triboelectric effect, low capacitance, and high flexibility (extremely important).