AudioQuest JitterBug USB Filter Review

[fluxcapacitor]

Full Ack.
Galvanic Isolation of the digital input side of a DAC is 100% guaranteed to always eliminate all "ground loop" type of issues, as it fixes the root cause of the problem.

why they dont include it, i really dont understand. Marantz ND8006 had same issue with my pc as well, same shit noise all around. It's an expensive product but even in it there's no isolation at all. Amir probably used a laptop on battery therefore couldn't observe any difference.

 

[Peterinvan]

Capitalism encourages profit above all other factors. We should not be surprised that companies take advantage of buyers with more money than sense. This is what they teach at Harvard and Stanford business schools.

The only thing about Capitalism that appeals to me is competition. With some legislated controls, the "profit pirates" will take advantage.


Has Amir tested other USB "cleaner" kit, for example from iFi?

I am still thinking that Amir's tests should be of several sources (PCs Laptops etc.) to see if there is any noise before/after (rather than the effect with several DACs).

EDIT: I see that this review from Achimago addressed the attempt to attenuate "noise" from a NUC

 

[Killingbeans]

Has Amir tested other USB "cleaner" kit, for example from iFi?

ifi iPurifier3 USB Filter Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the ifi iPurifier 3 "USB Audio and Data Signal Filter." It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $149. The iPurifier 3 comes in a gorgeous and nice to feel ceramic (?) enclosure. The enclosure give is enough weight to feel substantial but not...

www.audiosciencereview.com

ifi micro iUSB3.0 USB Filter Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the ifi micro iUSB3.0 USB regenerator, power supply and battery bank. It is on kind loan from a member. It costs US $399. ifi says it was discontinued but then came back to market. The enclosure is just like everything else ifi makes: Which is...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Jimster480]

The only thing about Capitalism that appeals to me is competition. With some legislated controls, the "profit pirates" will take advantage.


Has Amir tested other USB "cleaner" kit, for example from iFi?

I am still thinking that Amir's tests should be of several sources (PCs Laptops etc.) to see if there is any noise before/after (rather than the effect with several DACs).

EDIT: I see that this review from Achimago addressed the attempt to attenuate "noise" from a NUC

Capitalism makes everything that we enjoy in our lives including this entire industry.

Every form of government takes advantage of stupid people; the idea is to not be stupid.
Anyone who thinks that other forms of markets create better products; I encourage them to show some examples of such innovative ideas and competitive products without any such incentives to do so other than "mandates".

As far as the performance of the product is concerned, if it can eliminate any noise whatsoever, then it should actually eliminate the noise that the system is producing because every electronic device has noise.
However, I do understand what you mean by systems that have large amounts of noise where things like USB can not even be used. I can personally tell you that I did try a couple of these devices in a system that did have that problem and they did not fix it at all.

 

[Sal1950]

Capitalism makes everything that we enjoy in our lives including this entire industry.

Every form of government takes advantage of stupid people; the idea is to not be stupid.
Anyone who thinks that other forms of markets create better products; I encourage them to show some examples of such innovative ideas and competitive products without any such incentives to do so other than "mandates".

As far as the performance of the product is concerned, if it can eliminate any noise whatsoever, then it should actually eliminate the noise that the system is producing because every electronic device has noise.
However, I do understand what you mean by systems that have large amounts of noise where things like USB can not even be used. I can personally tell you that I did try a couple of these devices in a system that did have that problem and they did not fix it at all.

Three thumbs up to you for that post @Jimster480 !
And I only have 2 thumbs.

 

[AdamG]

The only thing about Capitalism that appeals to me is competition. With some legislated controls, the "profit pirates" will take advantage.


Has Amir tested other USB "cleaner" kit, for example from iFi?

I am still thinking that Amir's tests should be of several sources (PCs Laptops etc.) to see if there is any noise before/after (rather than the effect with several DACs).

EDIT: I see that this review from Achimago addressed the attempt to attenuate "noise" from a NUC

Capitalism makes everything that we enjoy in our lives including this entire industry.

Every form of government takes advantage of stupid people; the idea is to not be stupid.
Anyone who thinks that other forms of markets create better products; I encourage them to show some examples of such innovative ideas and competitive products without any such incentives to do so other than "mandates".

As far as the performance of the product is concerned, if it can eliminate any noise whatsoever, then it should actually eliminate the noise that the system is producing because every electronic device has noise.
However, I do understand what you mean by systems that have large amounts of noise where things like USB can not even be used. I can personally tell you that I did try a couple of these devices in a system that did have that problem and they did not fix it at all.

Hi Shipmates,

While I personally tend to align with your reasoned opinions I am obligated to perform my duties in an unbiased fashion. Therefore I must kindly ask you both to refrain from including comments and/or statements about politics…. I know that neither of you intend to make your posts political but we have some reports that claim that they are political and I must agree. So you both are Senior enough to know our Rules on this. Please refrain from further comments on politics including economic geopolitics.

Thank you Gentlemen for your cooperation and continued support of ASR and our Mission. Enjoy your evening Gentlemen.

 

[Schlippwhip68]

The Audioquest Jitterbug full metal jacket is a good purchase for me personally, I put an Avantree DG80 Bluetooth dongle into the end of that thing and plugged it into my PC and got far better sound quality, cleaner less harsh bluetooth signal going to my JBL Partybox, worked a treat!

 

[hp4fun]

Sorry to beat the dead horse here, but I did hear a difference!

But to hear it, please do / don't the following

1) Do not use the well designed and implemented DACs like Topping. Instead,
2) Try some "high-end" DACs that claims you can hear the difference between them and Topping, those who have "wider sound stage", "lavish vocal", "analogue sound", or
3) Try cheap ones that did not implement the isolation well.
4) Do use laptop / PC where ground loop is easily there.

By the end of your "improvements" using jitterbug, it ends up with a sound that is comparable to Topping.

So, I am not really beating this dead horse. It might be helpful in some cases, but it simply proves that those equipments are not well implemented, unfortunately. Analogue noises (instead of any "digital noise"!) spread through ground loop, and modulate the output to emphasize certain frequencies, ending up an effect/equalization that is like "R2R / analogue".

This is probably why there was no difference in @amirm tests but many claimed there were audible diff.

 

[SIY]

Sorry to beat the dead horse here, but I did hear a difference!

Could you describe your procedure and controls?

 

[hp4fun]

Could you describe your procedure and controls?

Both DACs are set to DAC out. Connect to the same USB hub to macbook. Outputs are connect to an Amp that can A/B switch. Level match using an external meter on a fixed frequency (I forgot which).

1) A/B testing with and without jitterbug
2) A/B testing with and without, but using iphone with a rubber case. Extra adapter was used.

As you can see not super scientific (I have a PhD in EE, trust me I know what scientific means) -- there are still a few variables that can make a few db differences. Also this is not a double blind test.

But yes I managed to get a more expensive Delta-Sigma DAC (brand not disclosed to avoid further rabbit hole, apology) sounds like Topping D90 and SMSL SU-9. It is more closer to SU-9 as they both use ESS chips.

I kind of laugh myself at the end, as I wasted some hours just to prove some basic electrical principals. I also understood when others claimed they start to hear more depth, better isolation, and heavier punch when using jitterbug.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Both DACs are set to DAC out. Connect to the same USB hub to macbook. Outputs are connect to an Amp that can A/B switch. Level match using an external meter on a fixed frequency (I forgot which).

1) A/B testing with and without jitterbug
2) A/B testing with and without, but using iphone with a rubber case. Extra adapter was used.

As you can see not super scientific (I have a PhD in EE, trust me I know what scientific means) -- there are still a few variables that can make a few db differences. Also this is not a double blind test.

But yes I managed to get a more expensive Delta-Sigma DAC (brand not disclosed to avoid further rabbit hole, apology) sounds like Topping D90 and SMSL SU-9. It is more closer to SU-9 as they both use ESS chips.

I kind of laugh myself at the end, as I wasted some hours just to prove some basic electrical principals. I also understood when others claimed they start to hear more depth, better isolation, and heavier punch when using jitterbug.

So a sighted AB test? I hope you realize such a test is meaningless.

 

[SIY]

Also this is not a double blind test.

That's the tragic flaw. It's a basic control which is badly needed. If you want to implement the test properly, there's a lot of help available here including a nice video on methods and procedures.

edit: Link here to get started.

 

[hp4fun]

That's the tragic flaw. It's a basic control which is badly needed. If you want to implement the test properly, there's a lot of help available here including a nice video on methods and procedures.

Fully agreed. As we already did the scientific study in the first post, we do not need another to prove the same thing.

I also guess there was no point for me to add the last post, to begin with. However I just cannot remember anyone mentioned this hypothesis in the past 27 pages, which is why I did this possibly meaningless study.

My case is closed. Thanks for your verification and feedback.

 

[gofishus]

I'm sorry friend but you don't get it.
Do you worry that any other digital file will change it's contents during transmission?
Documents containing ten's of thousands of words are moved around every day and words or letters don't go missing unless there is a near total failure of the transmission. A failure of the sound file will show up as complete dropout's or loud noises, not a subtle change in tonality.

I disagree. First of all, the youtube video he linked is making a point that USB cables do in fact, transmit audio differently and the youtuber proved it by playing back the differences with each cable against the same source file. So there must be something going on there.
And USB cables can and do transmit things imperfectly. There are times when you use a bad USB cable and it might lose connection with your phone or your mouse or whatever you are connecting - intermittently. There are times you transfer over files and they end up being corrupted and incomplete. You are saying digital either works or it doesn't and there's no in between when in fact, there IS an in between and we see it not uncommonly when we use bad USB cables. There's times you switch USB cables and one just works better than the other, it holds the connection better, sometimes they even have upgraded capabilities like transferring video not just data, etc but they are all USB cables. Just some are more capable and more reliable than others. So yes the Audioquest stuff might not actually do anything - but saying that USB cables are all the same is plain BS as well. USB or digital cables can certainly have differences between each other.

 

[amirm]

I disagree. First of all, the youtube video he linked is making a point that USB cables do in fact, transmit audio differently and the youtuber proved it by playing back the differences with each cable against the same source file. So there must be something going on there.
And USB cables can and do transmit things imperfectly. There are times when you use a bad USB cable and it might lose connection with your phone or your mouse or whatever you are connecting - intermittently. There are times you transfer over files and they end up being corrupted and incomplete. You are saying digital either works or it doesn't and there's no in between when in fact, there IS an in between and we see it not uncommonly when we use bad USB cables. There's times you switch USB cables and one just works better than the other, it holds the connection better, sometimes they even have upgraded capabilities like transferring video not just data, etc but they are all USB cables. Just some are more capable and more reliable than others. So yes the Audioquest stuff might not actually do anything - but saying that USB cables are all the same is plain BS as well. USB or digital cables can certainly have differences between each other.

In short length cables used for audio, such problems are non-existent unless the device is USB powered and the cable is ultra thin. I suggest watching this video on nature of such transmissions:

 

[voodooless]

There are times you transfer over files and they end up being corrupted and incomplete. You are saying digital either works or it doesn't and there's no in between when in fact, there IS an in between and we see it not uncommonly when we use bad USB cables. There's times you switch USB cables and one just works better than the other, it holds the connection better, sometimes they even have upgraded capabilities like transferring video not just data, etc but they are all USB cables. Just some are more capable and more reliable than others. So yes the Audioquest stuff might not actually do anything - but saying that USB cables are all the same is plain BS as well. USB or digital cables can certainly have differences between each other.

All of these are just manifestations of “it works or it doesn’t” I see no contradiction here.

 

[Killingbeans]

So there must be something going on there.

A difference like that indicates to me that the files weren't aligned properly. Timing, amplitude or both have to be wrong in one or more of the files in order to get an error that's recognizable as complete musical information.

Most likely the test is faulty, and not the cables.

A real difference in the quality of USB cables would be indicated as a difference in noise floors, and nothing else.

If you hear music playing when doing a null test like this, you're doing it wrong.

 

[Galliardist]

I disagree. First of all, the youtube video he linked is making a point that USB cables do in fact, transmit audio differently and the youtuber proved it by playing back the differences with each cable against the same source file. So there must be something going on there.
And USB cables can and do transmit things imperfectly. There are times when you use a bad USB cable and it might lose connection with your phone or your mouse or whatever you are connecting - intermittently. There are times you transfer over files and they end up being corrupted and incomplete. You are saying digital either works or it doesn't and there's no in between when in fact, there IS an in between and we see it not uncommonly when we use bad USB cables. There's times you switch USB cables and one just works better than the other, it holds the connection better, sometimes they even have upgraded capabilities like transferring video not just data, etc but they are all USB cables. Just some are more capable and more reliable than others. So yes the Audioquest stuff might not actually do anything - but saying that USB cables are all the same is plain BS as well. USB or digital cables can certainly have differences between each other.

Correct...

Trivially, there are different standards for USB connections and cables. Look at the difference between the requirements of USB 2.0 (suitable for most audio playback) and USB4, a variant of high speed Thunderbolt. Look at the power for charging that USB 3 and 4 have over 2. And yes, USB 2 cables can measure differently, as HiFi News showed over a decade ago.

The inevitable question then arises, but do they sound different? The answer lies in your "in between".

Think. When the connection breaks, it breaks. No bits, no sound. Just like a file transfer stops, or the mouse cursor doesn't move. If the cable introduces audible jitter, it's a pretty horrible sound. If the cable picks up vast amounts of noise - but what's the chance of that with a metre long USB lead? Of course, we have to allow for any buffering in the receiving audio device, but the principle is essentially the same. The buffer empties and the sound stops, or more data is buffered and it doesn't.

No way does a cable change exactly the bits to give a warmer sound or a deeper soundstage or suchlike. It might turn the bits into a garbage signal if you are unlucky, but again, no music at all.

You may as well try to produce my dream USB cable, the one that knocks out zeros just to the left of the decimal point in the payment total of a printed invoice while leaving everything else correct.

 

[gofishus]

Correct...

Trivially, there are different standards for USB connections and cables. Look at the difference between the requirements of USB 2.0 (suitable for most audio playback) and USB4, a variant of high speed Thunderbolt. Look at the power for charging that USB 3 and 4 have over 2. And yes, USB 2 cables can measure differently, as HiFi News showed over a decade ago.

The inevitable question then arises, but do they sound different? The answer lies in your "in between".

Think. When the connection breaks, it breaks. No bits, no sound. Just like a file transfer stops, or the mouse cursor doesn't move. If the cable introduces audible jitter, it's a pretty horrible sound. If the cable picks up vast amounts of noise - but what's the chance of that with a metre long USB lead? Of course, we have to allow for any buffering in the receiving audio device, but the principle is essentially the same. The buffer empties and the sound stops, or more data is buffered and it doesn't.

No way does a cable change exactly the bits to give a warmer sound or a deeper soundstage or suchlike. It might turn the bits into a garbage signal if you are unlucky, but again, no music at all.

You may as well try to produce my dream USB cable, the one that knocks out zeros just to the left of the decimal point in the payment total of a printed invoice while leaving everything else correct.

Right. I'm thinking of the cases when USB cables do have differences or malfunction - then it's pretty obvious when it does. The mouse will stop working for a few seconds. The transferred file is corrupted. If we apply this to music, then yeah logically either the music file will sound like corrupted garbage or it will sound fine. It would be hard for a USB cable to precisely change the data enough in a way where the music sounds overall musically better. I think that makes sense. These companies are probably preying on the fact that consumers will easily believe their marketing hype and then after they purchase it they will be subject to confirmation bias - they primed their brain already to think it will sound better so then it does sound better so then they get rave reviews from them so the scam can continue...

 

[gofishus]

A difference like that indicates to me that the files weren't aligned properly. Timing, amplitude or both have to be wrong in one or more of the files in order to get an error that's recognizable as complete musical information.

Most likely the test is faulty, and not the cables.

A real difference in the quality of USB cables would be indicated as a difference in noise floors, and nothing else.

If you hear music playing when doing a null test like this, you're doing it wrong.

He did fully explain the process of how he did it in that video, but there might a been a mistake somewhere in how he did it? not sure I'm not an expert in audio manipulation.

That said, the power of priming your brain to expect something better is more realistic than people think:

Anyone heard of this interesting test? Here, the voice either plays back 'green needle' or 'brainstorm' depending on which word you primed your brain for. Then the voice literally says that back to you.

That's exactly how I think, these expensive cables are 'working'. They are priming people's brains with the marketing hype. Then it actually DOES sound better to them through the magical power of brain priming.