Audiophile Heaven With Only Two Components

[mhardy6647]

A pair of BJC standard grey Canare 4S11 speaker cables outfitted with banana plugs for bi-wiring at 12 feet costs $199.50.

jeepers!

 

[kemmler3D]

Yes, I have to agree that while the reference to opamp rolling and the sound of wire should be corrected, "reading the room" goes both ways.

OP was clearly happily heading in the right direction even if he was still laboring under some misconceptions.

Focusing on the negative first and foremost is unpleasant with no gain on either side. When I finish a long home improvement job, I want to hear "nice work", not "YOU MISSED A SPOT".

Yes the missed spot needs to be addressed eventually, but maybe congratulate the person a bit on their success before effectively calling them stupid...

 

[mhardy6647]

Yes, I have to agree that while the reference to opamp rolling and the sound of wire should be corrected, "reading the room" goes both ways.

OP was clearly happily heading in the right direction even if he was still laboring under some misconceptions.

Focusing on the negative first and foremost is unpleasant with no gain on either side. When I finish a long home improvement job, I want to hear "nice work", not "YOU MISSED A SPOT".

Yes the missed spot needs to be addressed eventually, but maybe congratulate the person a bit on their success before effectively calling them stupid...

Point(s) well taken, sir. We have indeed even been asked politely by the management to take it easy on tyros and, I'd infer, by extension, also on those with, shall we say, less objective perspectives. Many, many of us have been there at one time or another on our hifi sojurns!

Let's be a little nicer, especially to newcomers

Hello you all. While I consider our forum to be more friendly than many, it seems that we are quite harsh on new members who post things that go against our consensus view. There is no reason to pound on people hard when they say this and that sounds good to them. Let them have some time here...

www.audiosciencereview.com

of course, there's also this:

Message to golden-eared audiophiles posting at ASR for the first time...

Hello friend. Hey, listen...we know how it is. Believe me, most of us have been there too. You've spent years toiling in the muck of audiophilia. You read ALL the reviews. You watched ALL the youtube videos. You visited ALL the other forums where everything always makes a difference. You...

www.audiosciencereview.com

both of the above are stickied, and for good reason, I'd opine.

I suspect that some, perhaps many, of us read certain types of posts and assume (whether consciously or subconsciously) that they're in fact trolls.
Some of 'em are. Face, we're an easy lot to troll.

 

[kemmler3D]

Point(s) well taken, sir. We have indeed even been asked politely by the management to take it easy on tyros and, I'd infer, by extension, also on those with, shall we say, less objective perspectives. Many, many of us have been there at one time or another on our hifi sojurns!

Let's be a little nicer, especially to newcomers

Hello you all. While I consider our forum to be more friendly than many, it seems that we are quite harsh on new members who post things that go against our consensus view. There is no reason to pound on people hard when they say this and that sounds good to them. Let them have some time here...

www.audiosciencereview.com

of course, there's also this:

Message to golden-eared audiophiles posting at ASR for the first time...

Hello friend. Hey, listen...we know how it is. Believe me, most of us have been there too. You've spent years toiling in the muck of audiophilia. You read ALL the reviews. You watched ALL the youtube videos. You visited ALL the other forums where everything always makes a difference. You...

www.audiosciencereview.com

both of the above are stickied, and for good reason, I'd opine.

I suspect that some, perhaps many, of us read certain types of posts and assume (whether consciously or subconsciously) that they're in fact trolls.
Some of 'em are. Face, we're an easy lot to troll.

I'll suggest something that sounds weird, but I think it would ultimately serve the goals of the site.

Weird idea: The ideal interaction with a troll (even a blatant one) is just to play it straight as you would with anyone else. Polite, helpful, knowledgeable. No insults, no calling their ideas nonsense.

The vast majority of visitors to this site aren't logging in or commenting. There are 2M every month, I think.

Many of these people will, to an extent, conflate the quality of information at ASR with how they feel about it. If they see snarky, condescending, or rude interactions with people asking questions, some of these numerous visitors are going to discount or even ignore what we have to say.

I think it generally feels like a pretty cozy group around here, but we should keep in mind we are doing this for an audience. If we're going to win minds we've got to win hearts, so appearing to be the good guys is important.

If a troll fails to respond to evidence and reason, unsubscribe from the thread and move on. The adage about not wrestling with a pig applies.

 

[mhardy6647]

I don't disagree, @kemmler3D!

 

[Mr. Widget]

I'll suggest something that sounds weird, but I think it would ultimately serve the goals of the site.

Weird idea: The ideal interaction with a troll (even a blatant one) is just to play it straight as you would with anyone else. Polite, helpful, knowledgeable. No insults, no calling their ideas nonsense.

I may be wrong, but I think the vast majority of "trolls" coming to ASR don't start out that way.

While it is true that there is no shortage of bad behavior in the on-line environment, it is also true that there are decades and decades of published works describing the benefits of wires, power conditioners, amplifiers, etc. so it is no wonder people come here and are often surprised and even skeptical when they hear that much of what they have been told doesn't hold up to serious scrutiny.

It doesn't help that due to the nature of audio perception it is so easy to be fooled since our hearing is often affected by our expectations.

 

[kemmler3D]

I may be wrong, but I think the vast majority of "trolls" coming to ASR don't start out that way.

While it is true that there is no shortage of bad behavior in the on-line environment, it is also true that there are decades and decades of published works describing the benefits of wires, power conditioners, amplifiers, etc. so it is no wonder people come here and are often surprised and even skeptical when they hear that much of what they have been told doesn't hold up to serious scrutiny.

It doesn't help that due to the nature of audio perception it is so easy to be fooled since our hearing is often affected by our expectations.

Totally agree. I think we have a relatively small number of trolls and a good number of people who are earnestly misled. Just go read the comments on any high-end audiophile youtube video. You see the same stuff every time. Are they all trolls trolling each other?

I say let the mods sort out the trolls and otherwise deal with people as if they honestly believe what they're saying and are trying to learn, because I agree, most of the time they do.

 

[Clmrt]

It depends if one says wires improve "experience" or "performance."

Far left = any wire will do, and only one run per speaker. I know that's all it takes. Shut up.
Middle = Well constructed, no nonsense, intentionally seeks out good, consistent quality based on objective needs with some subjective choosing.
Far right = Chasing the next best thing, all the features, bi-wire / passive bi-amp, elevators, gold or better, nothing less than the best most obnoxious overkill possible.

System performance will be the same across all three. Experiences differ based on personality and psychology.

If someone is happy with their experience and shares it, great. Glad you're a stereo guy. It's getting rare. I wouldn't let a debate on performance interfere with a friendship.

The dude who started this thread is enjoying his gear in his own way. I understand ASR is about science, but music is love. Gear is gear. If this place is about gear, and not music, then we have lost the point, I think.

 

[kemmler3D]

If this place is about gear, and not music, then we have lost the point, I think.

This place is barely about gear, it's about audio science, and only mostly as it pertains to gear. Sometimes we forget that and talk about music by accident.

 

[Thomas Savage]

When ones asking people to question everything they belive in and entertain a more critical and objective mindset it helps if those doing the asking ( not demanding ) are showing the same qualities themselves.

Namely ones not losing all perspective, attributing far too great a significance to random unknown indivisuals and generally indulging in behavior more akin to a rabidly insecure 12 year old.

I know it can be frustrating , ASR is also massively grateful to those defending the values of audio science but id politely and respectfully suggest more promotion and less actual aggressive defending maybe wise . In the old days it was war , and our community here was new , the indivisuals who came here were indoctrinated in that war and were under siege by a far greater number , ASR was fragile and things were really tricky. Turing that around , becoming as welcoming and friendly as possible, putting our shared humanity front and center wasn't easy on anyone , including me .

Generally it's my belief we've succeeded, so let's feel secure in that, build on it, and keep the ' open house ' feel going . Promote our values in the most effective way possible . This takes mutual trust , trust management will remove bad actors swiftly and judge situations with an even hand but firm grip, which they do , brilliantly! They in return trust you all respect that work and put the best face to our mission as possible. I think individually virtually all active members do , we can let ourselves down a bit when a active group dynamic takes hold , the ' pile on ' develops . That's the time for folks to take a ' scientific ' look at their own behaviour , get some perspective and remember what we are doing here.

Thank you .

 

[mhardy6647]

...but id politely and respectfully suggest more promotion and less actual aggressive defending maybe wise...

Nice way to express this perspective.

 

[Philipp]

there's always going to money in the banana stand

… as long as you do not burn it !