Atc Scm12 pro, Barefoot Footprint 03, Focal Shape Twin for casual music listening.

[HarrisARP]

Which one of these 3 speakers will be the best option for me for music listening in a 129 ft² treated room.20 years now i use studio monitors and i know and like their sound.I listen to music in low to moderate volumes and listen mostly to rock music.I can audition only the shape twin thats why i write this thread. I want recommendations for these speakers but if you think that something else is better please feel free to tell me.No hifi recommendations please!!!.Thank you!!!

 

[Purité Audio]

Is there a particular reason why you have chosen those three designs?
I would try and track down some measurements for each if they are available.
Keith

 

[HarrisARP]

Is there a particular reason why you have chosen those three designs?
I would try and track down some measurements for each if they are available.
Keith

Thank for your reply Keith.I end up with these three from reviews from pros,forums etc and according to my budget.I am not a pro just a dj who enjoy listening music at home through my pc.Any other suggestions are very welcome.I have to tell you that i audition focal solo6 st6 (not something special),genelec 8330A (better that focal but again nothing speacial too), Neumann kh-120 ii (very good but i want something better).Maybe something that is best for producing music will be worse for music listening and its a matter of taste.Also i apologize for my english.

 

[holdingpants01]

But why do you even want studio monitors? If you need something "better" or more "special" than KH120 or 8330A you probably will have better luck in consumer hifi products, as you can't get much neutral and good than those, other than more headroom and low end extension. Even then KH150 or 8350 are not that different than the smaller models and if you didn't find them "special" you won't find bigger models more impressive. You probably would prefer wider directivity speakers (not really available in studio world), with maybe some low end and high end boost. What are your current monitors and what do you want to upgrade from them?

 

[HarrisARP]

But why do you even want studio monitors? If you need something "better" or more "special" than KH120 or 8330A you probably will have better luck in consumer hifi products, as you can't get much neutral and good than those, other than more headroom and low end extension. Even then KH150 or 8350 are not that different than the smaller models and if you didn't find them "special" you won't find bigger models more impressive. You probably would prefer wider directivity speakers (not really available in studio world), with maybe some low end and high end boost

I do not like the "concept" speakers matching with amps thats why i like the studio monitors and also very important i listen nearfield 1,1-1,2 meter the most of the hifi speakers are not suitable for nearfield.As i wrote before the last 20 years i use studio monitors.And why you said that if i need something better than neumann kh-150 and genelec to go to hifi speakers,Did you hear all the studio monitors and you know the sound for all of them.What is the problem here?I didnt know that is forbidden to non pro use studio monitors and the opposite!!!If Neumann and genelec are maybe the best for you but not for all people!!There are many times that a studio monitor that is amazing for producing music to be horrible for listening to music.There are many studio monitors that are amazing for music listening that are not so good like others for production!!There are many studio monitors that are amazing both for production and for domestic use!!!

 

[goat76]

I have never listened to the Barefoot or the Focal speakers you have pinned down, but I can tell you that the ATC SCM11s (which are practically the same speakers as the SCM12, just the nicer-looking consumer version) sounds really great with rock, as that is also my main genre of music.

The ATCs I have, both 11s and 40s, are simply the best loudspeakers I’ve heard when it comes to rock music, as they have that ability not to lose the grip, layering, and separation when the music gets very chaotic and intense. I have heard many supposedly good speakers that simply can’t cope with that kind of music, they can sound great with less dense “audiophile” music but as things get more chaotic, they lose their grip and everything sounds stressful and unpleasant.

Keep the ATCs on the list and try to listen to them if you get the opportunity, they can handle everything!

 

[HarrisARP]

I have never listened to the Barefoot or the Focal speakers you have pinned down, but I can tell you that the ATC SCM11s (which are practically the same speakers as the SCM12, just the nicer-looking consumer version) sounds really great with rock, as that is also my main genre of music.

The ATCs I have, both 11s and 40s, are simply the best loudspeakers I’ve heard when it comes to rock music, as they have that ability not to lose the grip, layering, and separation when the music gets very chaotic and intense. I have heard many supposedly good speakers that simply can’t cope with that kind of music, they can sound great with less dense “audiophile” music but as things get more chaotic, they lose their grip and everything sounds stressful and unpleasant.

Keep the ATCs on the list, and try to listen to them if you get the opportunity, they can handle everything!

Thank you so much for your reply!!I will try to find a store to audition atc even the scm11 because maybe will be my first choice .I heard too amazing things about these monitors and i consider to match them (for now my budget is limited for an expensive amp) with hypex amp the ncore 252 maybe.May i ask which amp you use with the 11s ?

 

[goat76]

Thank you so much for your reply!!I will try to find a store to audition atc even the scm11 because maybe will be my first choice .I heard too amazing things about these monitors and i consider to match them (for now my budget is limited for an expensive amp) with hypex amp the ncore 252 maybe.May i ask which amp you use with the 11s ?

I have an old integrated amp that I have used for many years now, it’s a Musical Fidelity M6i. The M6i has a lot of power for an integrated amp which is good as ATC recommends strong amplifiers for their speakers.

I suggest you pair the speakers with one or two subwoofers as the ATC speakers don’t go very deep, but that will of course depend on your room and your preferences and they may go deep enough for your liking. I see this as a good thing that ATC doesn't try to exaggerate the bass performance, I believe it’s better to let the physical size of the speaker dictate how deep the bass goes and let the speakers roll off in a natural way, and then add subwoofers if more bass is needed. This approach will also most likely keep the distortion levels down, which is one of the strengths of ATC speakers.

 

[dfuller]

OK - let's go through this.

SCM12: It's a little sealed box ATC. It's going to have negligible bass extension, but the drivers are of good quality. It's generally pretty flat and low distortion. Add subs. They also need quite a bit of amp as they're on the lower end of sensitivity. Personally I don't really rate ATCs below the SCM25A.

Barefoot FP03: The initial reviews on Gearspace are... pretty mixed, I would say. Noisy, not good outside of nearfield.

Focal Shape Twin: Not good. I've owned the Shape 65s... they're extremely bright in-room and just generally not good.

 

[holdingpants01]

Here's a review of those ATCs with some measurements: https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/atc-scm12-pro-p1-pro
The low end roll off slowly from 100Hz to 35Hz at -12dB, which is very good for such old tech and with enough room gain it could even be ok without the subs. There's just midrange dip between 2kHz and 6kHz, could be beneficial to EQ it a bit, otherwise fine for a passive speaker. How's that more impressive than Genelecs or Neumanns I'm not sure

 

[dfuller]

Here's a review of those ATCs with some measurements: https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/atc-scm12-pro-p1-pro
The low end roll off slowly from 100Hz to 35Hz at -12dB, which is very good for such old tech and with enough room gain it could even be ok without the subs. There's just midrange dip between 2kHz and 6kHz, could be beneficial to EQ it a bit, otherwise fine for a passive speaker. But that's hardly more impressive than KH120 which also are about -12dB at 35Hz just with sharper drop off and more useful curve, as the 50-100Hz range won't be attenuated at all, and the rest of the spectrum is completely flat. They also have room correction capability which usually make a world of difference

Honestly, if the SCM20ASL is closer to this than the SCM19 reviewed here, they're actually pretty good... Especially considering they have like 300w of amp per speaker built in.

 

[holdingpants01]

Honestly, if the SCM20ASL is closer to this than the SCM19 reviewed here, they're actually pretty good... Especially considering they have like 300w of amp per speaker built in.

I'm not sure about that, I heard the SCM20ASL and they were bafflingly lo-fi sounding, there's even a youtube comparison with 8331 and they sound exactly like I remember, boxy and flat. I heard most of the rest of the pro range and they're fine for what they are, but SCM20 was always odd to me. I've found on axis measurements of the older version, even earlier roll off and same midrange dip makes them sound rather honky

 

[dfuller]

I'm not sure about that, I heard the SCM20ASL and they were bafflingly lo-fi sounding, there's even a youtube comparison with 8331 and they sound exactly like I remember, boxy and flat. I heard most of the rest of the pro range and they're fine for what they are, but SCM20 was always odd to me. I've found on axis measurements of the older version, even earlier roll off and same midrange dip makes them sound rather honky

View attachment 374153

Well, that's certainly unfortunate - I would have hoped it would be better than in the past.

(on the up shot, the PMC 6 is cheaper and pretty much certainly better than the SCM20, if you want an old school British designer...)

 

[goat76]

Here's a review of those ATCs with some measurements: https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/atc-scm12-pro-p1-pro
The low end roll off slowly from 100Hz to 35Hz at -12dB, which is very good for such old tech and with enough room gain it could even be ok without the subs. There's just midrange dip between 2kHz and 6kHz, could be beneficial to EQ it a bit, otherwise fine for a passive speaker. How's that more impressive than Genelecs or Neumanns I'm not sure

I think those measurements of the SCM12s pretty much mirror the measurements I did on my SCM11s. Mine are 0-90 degrees and are gated for seeing the direct response of the speakers. I am not sure at what height Sound On Sound measured the speakers, they seem to raise a bit more at 6k and above than my speakers so they may have done the measurement at the height of the tweeter, but the acoustic axis of these speakers are right in the middle between the tweeter and the mid/bass driver.

This is what is said in the review of the SCM12:

"Furthermore, the relatively limited low-frequency cutoff (-3dB around 70Hz) is made less significant by the slow roll-off thereafter, meaning that at 35Hz the SCM12 Pro is only 12dB down (Diagram 3). There’s absolutely no sense that low-frequency bandwidth is significantly restricted by the lack of a reflex port.

But it’s not just at the bass end where the SCM12 Pro excels. It has a natural, uncoloured, ‘hear-through’ mid-range quality and unforced detail in the way it presents high-frequency information, which means audio is reproduced with the minimum of speaker artifacts imprinted upon it. Stereo imaging was well focussed with good depth, and there were no embellishments or attention-drawing emphases anywhere, just accuracy and consistency. It’s exactly what’s needed from a mix tool.

If there were anything to change on the SCM12 pro, for personal preference and to suite my room a little better, I would have voiced it with a little more upper-mid energy. Diagram 4 illustrates an SCM12 Pro axial frequency response curve and although one response curve can never tell the full story, the band between 2 and 6 kHz appears a couple of dB shy. It leaves the SCM12 Pro sounding a little warm to my ears — more BBC LS3/5A than Yamaha NS10. Even so, a warm tonal balance is a benign characteristic that can be learned, or tweaked even with a little monitor bus EQ, as I did. Far more destructive in terms of using a monitor as a mix tool are time-domain, distortion, coloration or compression issues, of which the SCM12 Pro seems entirely free."

ATC SCM12 Pro & P1 Pro

ATC’s ‘artisanal’ approach to monitor design pays off handsomely with this classy new speaker and amplifier combo.

www.soundonsound.com

 

[Purité Audio]

if you aren’t in a hurry to purchase a new manufacturer has posted some pretty amazing measurements for their first monitor,
Ascilabs

AsciLab speakers are about to launch

We are about to launch a new line of speakers designed using Klippel NFS. The initial lineup is as follows: AsciLab C5B Specification - 2-way Bookshelf Speaker - Dual Passive Radiator - 1" Alumina Ceramic Dome Tweeter with Custom Waveguide and Phase Plug - 5" Alumina Ceramic Woofer - LW 4th...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Keith

 

[holdingpants01]

I do not like the "concept" speakers matching with amps thats why i like the studio monitors and also very important i listen nearfield 1,1-1,2 meter the most of the hifi speakers are not suitable for nearfield.As i wrote before the last 20 years i use studio monitors.And why you said that if i need something better than neumann kh-150 and genelec to go to hifi speakers,Did you hear all the studio monitors and you know the sound for all of them.What is the problem here?I didnt know that is forbidden to non pro use studio monitors and the opposite!!!If Neumann and genelec are maybe the best for you but not for all people!!There are many times that a studio monitor that is amazing for producing music to be horrible for listening to music.There are many studio monitors that are amazing for music listening that are not so good like others for production!!There are many studio monitors that are amazing both for production and for domestic use!!!

Well, I don't think you understood what I wrote. You want "better" or more "impressive" than as neutral as it gets, you need to go to hifi market

 

[Purité Audio]

There are transparent loudspeakers and less transparent loudspeakers they do not know what they are playing or for whom.
Keith

 

[HarrisARP]

I have an old integrated amp that I have used for many years now, it’s a Musical Fidelity M6i. The M6i has a lot of power for an integrated amp which is good as ATC recommends strong amplifiers for their speakers.

I suggest you pair the speakers with one or two subwoofers as the ATC speakers don’t go very deep, but that will of course depend on your room and your preferences and they may go deep enough for your liking. I see this as a good thing that ATC doesn't try to exaggerate the bass performance, I believe it’s better to let the physical size of the speaker dictate how deep the bass goes and let the speakers roll off in a natural way, and then add subwoofers if more bass is needed. This approach will also most likely keep the distortion levels down, which is one of the strengths of ATC speakers.

My room is small 12m2 (127ft2),As you said i will try it and then maybe i will add a sub (rel or svs).Thanks for your help!!!

 

[HarrisARP]

OK - let's go through this.

SCM12: It's a little sealed box ATC. It's going to have negligible bass extension, but the drivers are of good quality. It's generally pretty flat and low distortion. Add subs. They also need quite a bit of amp as they're on the lower end of sensitivity. Personally I don't really rate ATCs below the SCM25A.

Barefoot FP03: The initial reviews on Gearspace are... pretty mixed, I would say. Noisy, not good outside of nearfield.

Focal Shape Twin: Not good. I've owned the Shape 65s... they're extremely bright in-room and just generally not good.

Thank you for your help!!!

 

[HarrisARP]

I think those measurements of the SCM12s pretty much mirror the measurements I did on my SCM11s. Mine are 0-90 degrees and are gated for seeing the direct response of the speakers. I am not sure at what height Sound On Sound measured the speakers, they seem to raise a bit more at 6k and above than my speakers so they may have done the measurement at the height of the tweeter, but the acoustic axis of these speakers are right in the middle between the tweeter and the mid/bass driver.

View attachment 374158




This is what is said in the review of the SCM12:

"Furthermore, the relatively limited low-frequency cutoff (-3dB around 70Hz) is made less significant by the slow roll-off thereafter, meaning that at 35Hz the SCM12 Pro is only 12dB down (Diagram 3). There’s absolutely no sense that low-frequency bandwidth is significantly restricted by the lack of a reflex port.

But it’s not just at the bass end where the SCM12 Pro excels. It has a natural, uncoloured, ‘hear-through’ mid-range quality and unforced detail in the way it presents high-frequency information, which means audio is reproduced with the minimum of speaker artifacts imprinted upon it. Stereo imaging was well focussed with good depth, and there were no embellishments or attention-drawing emphases anywhere, just accuracy and consistency. It’s exactly what’s needed from a mix tool.

If there were anything to change on the SCM12 pro, for personal preference and to suite my room a little better, I would have voiced it with a little more upper-mid energy. Diagram 4 illustrates an SCM12 Pro axial frequency response curve and although one response curve can never tell the full story, the band between 2 and 6 kHz appears a couple of dB shy. It leaves the SCM12 Pro sounding a little warm to my ears — more BBC LS3/5A than Yamaha NS10. Even so, a warm tonal balance is a benign characteristic that can be learned, or tweaked even with a little monitor bus EQ, as I did. Far more destructive in terms of using a monitor as a mix tool are time-domain, distortion, coloration or compression issues, of which the SCM12 Pro seems entirely free."

ATC SCM12 Pro & P1 Pro

ATC’s ‘artisanal’ approach to monitor design pays off handsomely with this classy new speaker and amplifier combo.

www.soundonsound.com

Very very helpful thank you!!!!