Asymmetrical Double-Balanced Geometry

[mmuetst]

On a Dutch forum someone had bought an AudioQuest cable and combined it with his record player. The result was a 50Hz hum. after advice to connect a cheap standard cable, the hum was gone. We are talking about the Golden Gate AudioQuest cable:

Golden Gate · Bridges & Falls Series · Analog Interconnects · Cables

AudioQuest cables and other audio products combine solid conductors, high-purity metals, specialized geometries, and stable dielectrics to enable naturally beautiful sounds and images.

www.audioquest.com

Here the technique Asymmetrical Double-Balanced Geometry is applied. The owner of the turntable probably hasn't tried to flip the cable yet. I don't see the point in putting an extra grounder in a cable and connecting the shielding on one side to ground.
Is this another one of AudioQuest's BS solutions?

 

[KSTR]

That cable may be not shielded and/or does not have a symetrical concentrically balanced geometry (true coaxial or prefect twisted pair). The latter is most important for very low level moving coil signals to reduce magnetic pickup loop area, the former is more important for higher level (and higher impedance) moving magnet cartridges to shield capacitive noise pickup.

 

[mmuetst]

That cable may be not shielded and/or does not have a symetrical concentrically balanced geometry (true coaxial or prefect twisted pair). The latter is most important for very low level moving coil signals to reduce magnetic pickup loop area, the former is more important for higher level (and higher impedance) moving magnet cartridges to shield capacitive noise pickup.

AudioQuest does not give any specs.
the assumption is that the cable is constructed this way

The shielding is only connected to one side of the cable. There are even arrows on the cinch connectors so that you can connect it correctly.

 

[mmuetst]

The owner did test the cable in The other direction to see of the hum then will disappear, but that is not The case. The hum is the same and it does not matter how the cable is connected. When he switches back to the cheap cable, the hum is immediately gone.
I send an e-mail to AudioQuest with the request to send this cable for testing to @amirm. I am very curious how they react. ZW do send cables to Alpha Audio to have their cables tested.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I don't know that it looks like the picture above exactly. My guess is they are doing a 5 strand braid. In that braid are strands for right and ground, left and ground and ground. The last perhaps only connected at one end. The 5th strand is what makes it asymmetrical. This also lets them put it in one cable cover until the ends. Basically a cost saving method of construction. Their previous cables were 3 strand braids with signal and ground and ground. With the last ground only connected at the source end. So in this configuration they are saving one wire and using only one cable cover instead of two for each stereo connection. Then marketing their cost saving as a feature of innovation.

EDIT to add:
Here is a article where Bill Lowe says it was reduced cost and to have one construction that can be used with a variety of end connections. Along with the claim earlier cheaper versions offered better sound for the money. Sure thing Bill. I'd likely describe it as better money for the sound for AQ.

The Entry Level #34 Page 2

www.stereophile.com

 

[mhardy6647]

is there a ground lead from the tt to the preamp?
if so: is the arm and/or chassis connected to preamp ground?

If it is grounded, try lifting the ground.

Finally: Maybe the obvious suggestion would be: try some cheaper cables.

PS When investigating grounding/shielding issues, a bag of these can be one's best friend.

 

[mocenigo]

On a Dutch forum someone had bought an AudioQuest cable and combined it with his record player. The result was a 50Hz hum. after advice to connect a cheap standard cable, the hum was gone. We are talking about the Golden Gate AudioQuest cable:

Golden Gate · Bridges & Falls Series · Analog Interconnects · Cables

AudioQuest cables and other audio products combine solid conductors, high-purity metals, specialized geometries, and stable dielectrics to enable naturally beautiful sounds and images.

www.audioquest.com

Here the technique Asymmetrical Double-Balanced Geometry is applied. The owner of the turntable probably hasn't tried to flip the cable yet. I don't see the point in putting an extra grounder in a cable and connecting the shielding on one side to ground.
Is this another one of AudioQuest's BS solutions?

Maybe the cable is not suitable? It should have a perfectly symmetric construction and have a good shielding. Otherwise, being the pickup signals so weak, anything that is picked up will be very strong after the phono preamp stage. Is the cable recommended by AQ for phono or not?

So did the person on the dutch forum get the normal Audioquest Golden Gate or the specific tonearm version?

 

[mmuetst]

is there a ground lead from the tt to the preamp?
if so: is the arm and/or chassis connected to preamp ground?

If it is grounded, try lifting the ground.

Finally: Maybe the obvious suggestion would be: try some cheaper cables.

PS When investigating grounding/shielding issues, a bag of these can be one's best friend.

Yes there is a ground wire from TT to pre-amp

 

[mmuetst]

Maybe the cable is not suitable? It should have a perfectly symmetric construction and have a good shielding. Otherwise, being the pickup signals so weak, anything that is picked up will be very strong after the phono preamp stage. Is the cable recommended by AQ for phono or not?

So did the person on the dutch forum get the normal Audioquest Golden Gate or the specific tonearm version?

The normal, but I think it will make no difference for the hum. He can not test that part, he only has the normal version of that cable. When I check the website from AudioQues, I only see a extra ground wire.
And why a special cable, AudioQuest claims that this cable reduces hum and noice from outside. With a CD player or other line equipment the normal output impediance will be low that also without shielding, there will no hum.
The cheap cable does not hum at all, and is not special for Phono use.

 

[mmuetst]

Extra detail, he uses a Technics SL-1500C and the hum is there if he uses the phone amp inside the record player (line out) and if he uses the Phono out (and amplifier in his amplifier) no differnce there.

 

[mhardy6647]

Extra detail, he uses a Technics SL-1500C and the hum is there if he uses the phone amp inside the record player (line out) and if he uses the Phono out (and amplifier in his amplifier) no differnce there.

hmm...
I would -- were it me -- swap cables first and foremost.
If there's still a hum... check the tonearm wiring to the cartridge. Fiddle (gently!) with the four connectors from the arm wiring to the cartridge pins.
That's where I would go.

I would (still) try lifting that ground, too.

If one hears the hum without a record playing (e.g., with the tt turned off and with the arm cued "up"*), one's troubleshooting can easily become more aggressive.
E.g., touch a cliplead from the arm itself to the ground connection that is already present from tt (chassis?) to the ground connector on the preamp/amp/receiver. Any change?

If there's no hum with the arm up, the output of the tt may be muted (pretty common, at least in massmarket/vintage 'record players'). If so, just lower the cueing (if possible) with the tt off and the arm on its rest. If it's gonna hum -- it should hum under this condition!
Easier to fiddle around with variables with no record playing!

 

[mmuetst]

hmm...
I would -- were it me -- swap cables first and foremost.
If there's still a hum... check the tonearm wiring to the cartridge. Fiddle (gently!) with the four connectors from the arm wiring to the cartridge pins.
That's where I would go.

I would (still) try lifting that ground, too.

If one hears the hum without a record playing (e.g., with the tt turned off and with the arm cued "up"*), one's troubleshooting can easily become more aggressive.
E.g., touch a cliplead from the arm itself to the ground connection that is already present from tt (chassis?) to the ground connector on the preamp/amp/receiver. Any change?

If there's no hum with the arm up, the output of the tt may be muted (pretty common, at least in massmarket/vintage 'record players'). If so, just lower the cueing (if possible) with the tt off and the arm on its rest. If it's gonna hum -- it should hum under this condition!
Easier to fiddle around with variables with no record playing!

Apparently you didn't read the whole story. The hum is only available in combination with the AQ cable. With a cheap cable the hum is gone...

But in the end my question has not been answered whether AQ's method is nonsense.

 

[JaMaSt]

better sound

 

[mhardy6647]

Apparently you didn't read the whole story. The hum is only available in combination with the AQ cable. With a cheap cable the hum is gone...

But in the end my question has not been answered whether AQ's method is nonsense.

You're right -- I did indeed miss that. Sorry!
Sounds like the fix is trivially simple, then!
AQ's "method"? Well, it's clearly not helping in this particular use case.
That said:
It is possible that these particular cables have "an issue" -- this isn't an unknown thing with AQ (or other boutique) cables and may be as simple as the "terminations" (plugs) themselves. Their owner should contact AQ (or the dealer) for repair if he/she/they have any appreciable amount of money invested in them.
The other ugly but very real possibility is that the cables in question are knock-offs. This, too, is far from uncommon.

AQ on counterfeits:

Beware of Counterfeits

One of the unfortunate consequences of building a successful premium brand is the appearance of counterfeit products. We advise customers to buy from authorized AudioQuest dealers and distributors.

www.audioquest.com

... and some not entirely random (but decidedly anecdotal) references on AQ cable "issues":

Weird hum situation... solved but not sure how

So I was hooking up a Yaqin tube buffer between my CDP and AVR (which is used as pre). When I powered it on I got a nasty hum from the speakers.

forum.polkaudio.com

strange behaviour from AudioQuest Copperhead

I recently got some AQ Copperheads from this board....skinny little things...look and feel prettty fragile....

forum.polkaudio.com

hum from drivers

I recently began having a problem with my amplifier going into protection mode when playing music/videos at high volumes.

forum.polkaudio.com

Audioquest Diamondback - Review/ Demo

Please refer to this thread before posting: CABLE DEMO PROGRAM - GUIDELINES DEMO # 2 : Audioquest Diamondback - 2M The Cable-

forum.polkaudio.com

 

[Blumlein 88]

Apparently you didn't read the whole story. The hum is only available in combination with the AQ cable. With a cheap cable the hum is gone...

But in the end my question has not been answered whether AQ's method is nonsense.

The performance of the AQ cable versus a cheap cable has answered your question most definitively. It is nonsense.