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I’d like to see a fully roon-ready DAC with adjustable/dynamic loudness contour and multiple outputs for subwoofers. If we are just making product requests.

Something like the Cambridge streamers combined with ADI functionality would be even better (ie add multiple streaming protocols).
 
Hi John, thank you for taking questions? What's the biggest barrier to introducing a DAC product that can do PEQ and crossover to a sub? It seems like those are the biggest asks for most people when it comes to new DAC products rather than squeezing more SINAD.

Thank you!
BIG YES to Topping DACs with PEQ and bass management. Pls do it Topping.
 
The one thing I like most about google chromecast with live tv is that the use of HDMI allows on/off and volume control of the attached device via ARC.

A tv dedicated ‘ARC DAC’ would not add another remote.

I suppose the market for this might be too small?

no, but the licensing/implementation fees are high, last time i checked it was somewhere in the area of 10k$ licensing/year (depending on quantity produced) + .1-.15$ per piece of implementation
 
next electrostat amp also for he60 he90 headphones. perhaps a voltage switch like the ifi amp.
 
@JohnYang1997 do you measure your DACs with DSD inputs as part of QA/QC process?

I don't mean playing DSD music - I mean measurement test files.

I measured several Topping DACs and they are very bad with DSD256 test files compared with PCM input.

From what I see It appears from QA/QC Topping is not measuring with DSD256 and DSD512 inputs

I can send you test files if you want? What is your email
Why test files,you can measure straight with Multitone up to DSD256 (DoP)
 
Why test files,you can measure straight with Multitone up to DSD256 (DoP)
Mmm I don't know much about Multitone and its DSD output

I will test and compare

I already have test files before Multitone added DSD output
 
Mmm I don't know much about Multitone and its DSD output

I will test and compare

I already have test files before Multitone added DSD output
All you have to do is change DSD Mode

DSD.PNG


from "none" to "DoP",select DSD family base rate (44.1K usually) and 64-128-256.

I have found MT's generator far superior than the test files changing hands around the net.
 
All you have to do is change DSD Mode

View attachment 296837

from "none" to "DoP",select DSD family base rate (44.1K usually) and 64-128-256.

I have found MT's generator far superior than the test files changing hands around the net.

My test files I created using HQPlayer Pro version (pkane knows this software).

Upsampling REW PCM test files to DSD

But yes Multitone Analayzer is a good all in one to test DSD256 @JohnYang1997

From what I saw with broken DSD output performance, no DSD output analogue measurements were done

Hopefully Topping can actually test in design and QA/QC

Especially broken has been DSD Direct mode topping DACs - ess no issues
 
Idk, both you mentioned have been confirmed copying our designs.
This is a general industry question.

I know in the past intellectual rights aren't well respected in China (I don't say this in any offensive way, just a matter of fact) and often times they copy other companies' trade secrets.

Since you mentioned two of your competitors copying Topping's design, I am curious how intellectual property rights are nowadays in China?

Thanks in advance.
 
Thanks for saying this, so true.
Examples:
When encapsulating, if there is any manufacturing residue (like solder flux), the encapsulation will typically cause the residue to be an early time to fail.
Also, if there are any electromechanical marginalities in the manufacturing (like bad solder process), encapsulation will typically accelerate/exacerbate the fail. This will show up in early life fails.
Even if the manufacturing process is flawless, encapsulation puts additional thermal and mechanical stress reducing the useful life time. If the manufacturing flow leaves behind stuff like solder flux, then add chemical degradation and new sources of gasses and defects and other insidious mechanisms to degrade your product.

Things get 'potted' for various reasons.

@JohnYang1997 mentioned power supplies... High Voltage power supplies are potted or encapsulated in dielectric materials that prevent a range of behavior, but those materials are often gel or even liquid. And most of the encapsulated devices aren't a bunch of surface mount parts stuffed onto a board. And some HV encapsulations are designed to improve thermals, not degrade.

Other things get encapsulated for environmental reasons, like when seawater or corrosive stuff is the main enemy. In this case, encapsulation makes sense even though the encapsulated component is going to cost much more and almost assuredly will have a shorter maximum service life compared to an equivalent component that is not encapsulated. Of course, the non-encapsulated component fails quickly in the corrosive environment, but it almost always pays a penalty in maximum lifetime. And of course costs much more. And many of these manufacturers have a pre-production model of the encapsulation, and test that model prior to production qualification, and plan on making changes prior to production release, and even include test structures to monitor fail modes in that pre-production reliability run.

Topping @JohnYang1997 appears to be doing the encapsulation for IP. I understand the reasons, and am a bit heartbroken. But to be serious, any competitor can de-lid your encapsulation and reverse engineer in a few hours (@gamerpaddy did just for fun;)). So you don't protect yourself one bit, sorry to say. And you pass reliability onto the customer, double-sorry to say... And I see you are even trying to do some extended life testing to figure out what is going on, which is commendable. If you feel you have a handle on the interaction of the manufactured component with the encapsulation, fine. But even a change in vendor of potting compound, or change in board design, or change in board manufacturing process, or a tool or process running out of spec... all will introduce customer returns... where a non-encapsulated device would be fine.

I have some pain on this. I was one of the early PA5 buyers. I also bought a D30Pro and A30Pro. Sadly, the PA5 succumbed to the defect. I had a very bad experience with one of the resellers, I think you helped get that resolved, and I appreciate. I also had the A30Pro go bad, and I think you may have directly or indirectly helped since the reseller refunded my money after first dragging me out... Much of my frustration is with the resellers so thanks for your recommendation. But, for sure some of it is with the intrinsically unreliable PA5.

In summary:
I would ditch the potting.
I would enforce discipline on the resellers since they play a role in your Brand.
Thank you for your advice.
 
Stop potting. Based on my 35 years experience in electronics it is difficult to make it work properly without causing quality issues. It is also a nightmare for the factory processes.

And it brings you no benefits - only costs you reliability!

I think your stated reason was to stop your competitors reverse engineering your designs. It won't. One person (on his own) has managed to reverse engineer the PA5 module to enable people to repair their own amplifiers.

I won't add what I think about toppings CS that made that necessary.
Thanks to you for your advice too.
 
This is a general industry question.

I know in the past intellectual rights aren't well respected in China (I don't say this in any offensive way, just a matter of fact) and often times they copy other companies' trade secrets.

Since you mentioned two of your competitors copying Topping's design, I am curious how intellectual property rights are nowadays in China?

Thanks in advance.
Understood. It's not good imo. And it's the most frustrating thing I have learned since I joined the industry. Now people only knows it's important but enforcing is difficult. But if you have enough time and resources things can be done. It's still almost like the "standard operation" to enter an industry and just copy whatever is good.
International patents are difficult and cost really long time. Often time it can be already after the time of interest in the market.
 
@JohnYang1997 do you measure your DACs with DSD inputs as part of QA/QC process?

I don't mean playing DSD music - I mean measurement test files.

I measured several Topping DACs and they are very bad with DSD256 test files compared with PCM input.

From what I see It appears from QA/QC Topping is not measuring with DSD256 and DSD512 inputs

I can send you test files if you want? What is your email
With relatively old ESS chips like 9038q2m 9038pro, the DSD performance is just worse. We don't care too much about DSD performance. But it has to be normal like in the 0.000x% range at least. 9068 is better in this regard and can achieve similar performance as PCM. AKM chips usually doesn't have higher distortion with DSD but the amplitude is halved so both noise and THD+N is still quite a bit worse.
We have DSD files generated by different softwares to test and it's done like that since like forever.

What devices have you tested and how bad did they perform?
 
All I'd ask/say is:
As a really happy E30 owner (had it for years, use it every day) I have no problem with Topping stuff, and would consider them for future purchases, but there've been quite a few serious issues with (especially) amps/dacs failing which seem to be both design and build quality related. Most people are buying the kit thousands of miles from China so returning it is a faff/expensive, and that's if you can get the retailer to honour their legal requirements regarding returns/refunds etc, so it's not like you can rock up at a local shop and swap it for a replacement at your convenience.
Questions:
Are you aware of how much your reputation has fallen on ASR in the last year (this site - and especially its owner - was accused of being Topping shills such was the great performance measured on your devices)?
Do you have a good understanding of the various problems?
Are you - and can we - be sure this sort of thing really won't happen again? (Obviously this can't be a 100% promise but someof these problems happened to Schiit and they upped their game and you don't hear about it happening to their stuff any more).
Any plans to address the after-sales lucky dip?
1, regarding resellers, we have regional resellers that are doing better like Apos, Audiophonics, Addicted to audio. But we will put pressure on other resellers to give better service.
2, I am aware of how much reputation has fallen around here. But the thing is more complicated
1) Although not much increase, in the poor economical environment we don't seem to have decrease in sales. So in a way ASR may not cover enough user base. It's weird thing to say but it's true.
2) The general consensus here has changed a lot. Not many chases after the last bit of performance like before. It may because it's not audible (but noise is certainly audible in some types of devices). It may be it's over the ap555's limit.
3) But again like the first, the people here(at least comments) are a bit different than what's shown on sells. People here seem to be much more sensitive to pricing. When the lower cost brands/subbrands came they draw a lot of attention. More casual buyers may not care about performance or too much on pricing anything like that if they feel like to buy they buy or they get recommend by friends.
3, our biggest market is US. So it's automatically a benefit to be domestic brands like schiit(and JDS and other amp builders in the US). People in the US are more comfortable buying US brands especially when they don't cost more. We import components from the US, and we distribute via resellers so it adds a lot of cost just to get to the US. On the other hand like in AU it's more appealing to buy our products or AU's domestic brands like burson. So the biggest thing in between is the reseller. Our new TP branding doesn't have resellers but ourselves so it maybe inconvenient in some way but it's a choice. Then the usual Hifigo, SZA thing. It's difficult. SZA is the biggest reseller in the industry, we can only do so much we can't control them. And we need other resellers to compete with SZA. And even Apos sources. from SZA. So basically it's a mess. Simpler situation is either go with apos, audiophonics, A2A or directly from us. We are looking for more regional resellers especially NA but again difficult. Recently we are looking at making the pricing in AU match the US pricing but then it requires discussion, time, people to do.
4, on the reliability, yes we are putting more and more resources onto this. We have kind of worked our way out on how to achieve the result we want. So in the future it will be much much better. Sometimes it amazes me other brands don't have these issues or maybe they do just not to the scale maybe or simply people don't care about those brands so minimal reports. So in short we have upped our game in testing before production and testing after production. And continue improving largely in coming 1-2 years.
 
Will Topping consider 430mm wide products? Many north Americans and Europeans prefer the full size to match the rest of gear in their AV rack.

You mentioned that Topping will make a version LA90 just as a power amp. Will Topping consider a much more powerful amp? And in 430mm?
TP branding is for that.
On more powerful amps, yes and yes. But not all in 430 format. In TP branding yes.
 
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