Ascend Acoustics Owners' Lounge

[PristineSound]

Hey All - I want to create a thread for Ascend Acoustics owners. The purpose is to discuss all things related to Ascend Acoustics speakers, including but not limited to:

• Optimal placement
• Proper amplification
• Other equipment/brands that works well with Ascend Acoustics
• Your experience with Ascend Acoustics
• New products from Ascend Acoustics
• Or for those who are interested in Ascend Acoustics speakers, you can come here to ask any questions you may have.

Please stay on topic.

 

[PristineSound]

My ELX RAAL in piano black and mounted on Isoacoustics Gaia II.

My subjective impression

• Excellent spatial characteristics, imaging is excellent, but I have heard other speakers that's slightly better, possibly a result of the ELX's very wide horizontal directivity.
• The bass is exactly as it is advertised.
• The cabinet is rock solid as advertised using bamboo. Craftsmanship is excellent.
• Tonal balance is as it is measured, pretty much as neutral as it can get.
• Vertical directivity is pretty messy as measured, but completely inconsequential in my listening space.
• Overall, I don't think I can find a full tower that can perform as good as these ELX subjectively and at this price point (I have owned the Revel F226Be before this.).
• Will likely own these for a very long time.

For my space, I do need to bring it two feet away from the front wall. And I do need an equilateral triangle to get superb imagining.

 

[Gyosa1]

These are mine , placed next to my Salks when I first got them almost a year ago . ELX Ribbons , Salk Supercharged Song Towers ….. love them , both .

Bk

 

[Gwreck]

Here is my ELX Raal tower in cherry. I also have the Sierra Raal ex v2 for my rears and matching horizon Rall as my center channel.

 

[Beave]

These are mine , placed next to my Salks when I first got them almost a year ago . ELX Ribbons , Salk Supercharged Song Towers ….. love them , both .

Bk

Thanks for the side-by-side picture. I didn't realize how much taller the Salk SCST would be compared to the Ascend towers.

 

[Mark609]

Nice thread and pix

I just ordered the V2 Sierra Towers and Horizon center, all with the RAAL 72-20 in cherry. Dave is expecting a shipment of the RAAL tweeters in next week.

I have some really fine old Aria 5 MTM's LCR, DIY builds. Focal kevlar 5.25" mids, Accuton ceramic tweeters. They're housed in fine Honduras mahogpny lumber. They aren't selling in various adds. Think using them for surround sides ore backs is overkill?. I hate to stick them in a closet and forget them!

 

[PristineSound]

Nice thread and pix

I just ordered the V2 Sierra Towers and Horizon center, all with the RAAL 72-20 in cherry. Dave is expecting a shipment of the RAAL tweeters in next week.

I have some really fine old Aria 5 MTM's LCR, DIY builds. Focal kevlar 5.25" mids, Accuton ceramic tweeters. They're housed in fine Honduras mahogpny lumber. They aren't selling in various adds. Think using them for surround sides ore backs is overkill?. I hate to stick them in a closet and forget them!

View attachment 453271

Nice space. You're gong to really enjoy the Sierra Towers. BTW, it is the same exact cabinets used in the ELX, when you get it give it a knock, you will see how stiff that bamboo cabinet is. Excellent resonance damping material.

 

[Mark609]

Thanks. Really looking forward to it, this after months of research, comparisons.

Looking now at more room treatments, those that treat dialogue hertz range.

 

[Multicore]

Hello. We have Sierra Tower RAAL here in the living room. We got them in 2019 after asking questions here on ASR. Cherry.

We use them with a MiniDSP Flex, Dirac Live, and a Buckeye Hypex NC252MP. Works real good.

No desire to upgrade. When Ascend released the ELX I was tempted to buy the upgrade kit with the introductory discount. But I was scared that after installing it I wouldn't notice a difference and then I'd feel really foolish. It's fine. I think what we got sounds swell.

Here's the block diagram of the system.

 

[PristineSound]

A little back story: I have owned their Sierra LX for less than a year, then I sold it. Why? So I can fund the ELX RAAL because I was so impressed with the LX and surely the ELX is got to be that much better.

The color I wanted was on back order, I waited nearly 6 months with no speakers in my living room. That was a very very long 6 months I may add. Finally the ELX came in and based on my experience with many other speakers (Revel F226Be and Neumann included), I can confirm that they are truly end game speakers.

I will be honest, I was a bit concerned with the uncontrolled vertical directivity. But in my space, it proves to be a none issue.

 

[Mark609]

I know it's Klippel Near Field Scanner measurements but I just spent an hour comparing the MEASUREMENT grafts of the Sierra Tower V2 with RAAL against the similar ELX with RAAL and the towers show as good if not better (I.e. impedance loads) than the ELX towers. One area the ELX excels is in the 40-80 Hz area, where the Sierra towers have a roll off there and a slight bump/peak around 100 Hz. https://ascendacoustics.com/collections/elx-series/products/elx-tower-pair?variant=40602626916406 Since I have two 15" subs driven by the (old) Soundcraftsman PCR800 amp, pre-amped from an Anthem AVR1140, the low end of the ELX is not important to me.

Same thing applies with the Horizons with ribbons. I find the measurements of the Sierra Horizon V2 as good as the ELX.

Without good room acoustics it's all a moot point. The best speakers can sound like crap in a live, echo prone room. I'm currently working on DIY 2" thick acoustical treatments, both 2X2 and 2X4.

 

[PristineSound]

I know it's Klippel Near Field Scanner measurements but I just spent an hour comparing the MEASUREMENT grafts of the Sierra Tower V2 with RAAL against the similar ELX with RAAL and the towers show as good if not better (I.e. impedance loads) than the ELX towers. One area the ELX excels is in the 40-80 Hz area, where the Sierra towers have a roll off there and a slight bump/peak around 100 Hz. https://ascendacoustics.com/collections/elx-series/products/elx-tower-pair?variant=40602626916406 Since I have two 15" subs driven by the (old) Soundcraftsman PCR800 amp, pre-amped from an Anthem AVR1140, the low end of the ELX is not important to me.

Same thing applies with the Horizons with ribbons. I find the measurements of the Sierra Horizon V2 as good as the ELX.

Without good room acoustics it's all a moot point. The best speakers can sound like crap in a live, echo prone room. I'm currently working on DIY 2" thick acoustical treatments, both 2X2 and 2X4.

Per Dave:

Source

The one thing about speakers is that unlike electronics, measurements alone doesn't tell the full performance/characteristics of the sound.

That's precisely part of the reason why all speaker designers does a listening test on speakers after simulations and measurements (including serious reviewers like Amir and Erin). Kind of like a chef doing a taste test even if they follow the recipe and have cooked the dish multiple times before. Additionally, many times some flaws in the speaker measurements isn't always apparent or shows up in listening.

Having said that, I never heard the Sierra Tower v2, so I can't comment on it. But I can give some very honest and direct comment on few things based on my experience with the ELX RAAL. The LX woofers (as I own the LX previously and now the ELX), they have this mid bass punch, that's best described with the word "punch", which doesn't come up on the spin (maybe other measurements it will?) that's very pleasant to me and the reproduction of kick drums reminds me of live events because of that punch. The ELX RAAL has impressive dynamics too, most noticeable for me with high dynamic range music, especially classical. I can't comment on the other claims like better transients with the RAAL ribbon tweeter only because I don't have a frame of reference to do a back to back AB with the Titan tweeters, but those RAAL are impressive, in terms of clarity and sound localization, depth localization included (I am tempted to say the depth localization is not just the recording, as some tracks plays with phase manipulation, because the depth localization is better on these ELX RAAL when compared to other lesser speakers with the same track).

Though one thing I noticed about these RAAL ribbon, which shows up on the measurements, is a very narrow vertical dispersion, and you will notice it when you move your head on the vertical plane, for example, when I stand up from the couch; so the caveat is that I suspect they potentially aren't so great for the application of multi-row, stadium style seating home theater. But for my application, the narrow vertical dispersion is of no concern whatsoever, especially for the trade off of very wide horizontal dispersion.

The sound stage on the ELX RAAL is huge, but I have no frame of reference to the Sierra TowerV2.

I don't want to be that bad influence on you to try to convince you to spend more money. . .but if you have that extra money sitting around and you just want an end game speaker (or at least get out of this upgrade after upgrade path), these ELX can absolutely be that end game.

 

[PristineSound]

As I understand it, one of the key reasons for speaker non linearity is due to resonance.

MDF has been used forever in speaker cabinets, for multitude of reasons: they are easy to work with, they are affordable, easily sourced and they do a relatively reasonable job with resonance control.

Some higher end speaker manufacturers will address this problem by using HDF, while others will use exotic materials such as aluminum (aluminium for those outside of US), carbon fiber, glass composite and some even use granite (not to my taste and I question the longevity of granite).

Ascend used something very different and novel, bamboo, here is are some measurements between bamboo and MDF.

Source

 

[Mark609]

Per Dave:
View attachment 454737
Source

The one thing about speakers is that unlike electronics, measurements alone doesn't tell the full performance/characteristics of the sound.

I understand. Very nice response, thanks.

All a moot point without an A/B.

I don't want to be that bad influence on you to try to convince you to spend more money. . .but

hehe.....I'll wait for the V2 version.

 

[SunByrne]

Per Dave:
View attachment 454737

That's Dave's take on the ELX Tower vs. the S2EXv2 bookshelf, not the ELX Tower vs. the V2 Tower. I don't think it's a stretch to think the ELX Tower, with the 70-20 tweeter (vs. the 64-10 in the bookshelf), a dedicated midrange driver, two woofers, and much larger cabinet volume, beats the bookshelf for the entire audible frequency range, as per Dave's comment. Frankly, I think for most applications that the (cheaper) S1v2 bookshelf beats the S2EXv2 (I own both).

The difference between the ELX Tower and the RAAL V2 Tower is likely much smaller.

 

[PristineSound]

That's Dave's take on the ELX Tower vs. the S2EXv2 bookshelf, not the ELX Tower vs. the V2 Tower. I don't think it's a stretch to think the ELX Tower, with the 70-20 tweeter (vs. the 64-10 in the bookshelf), a dedicated midrange driver, two woofers, and much larger cabinet volume, beats the bookshelf for the entire audible frequency range, as per Dave's comment. Frankly, I think for most applications that the (cheaper) S1v2 bookshelf beats the S2EXv2 (I own both).

The difference between the ELX Tower and the RAAL V2 Tower is likely much smaller.

My mistake, I should do a better job reading next time.

@AscendDF can you comment on ELX vs. Sierra Tower v2?

 

[Pareto Pragmatic]

I bought the Sierra LXs to cross over with my very loud and complicated 100 year old floor.

I don't want to get into my room, much less my floor in detail more than needed, but I get a lot of sound from my compliant floor(s), and that contribution is pretty variable. In effect, it's like a reverse loudness device, boosting bass and treble with higher volume, not lower volume as real loudness circuits do. If I want flatish to 20, I can make that happen... if I am willing to pay the price in the coin of distortion.

Here are two recent measurements post EQ, using an external bass sweep source I use to develop EQs (faster to cycle through than REW sweeps, same results as REW sweeps with 512k sampling, when viewed at 1/6 and 1/12 smoothing).

In the measurements below, the big "floor mode" is 31Hz, obviously.

RED: 5ft from wall (port 4.5'/1.4m), toed in, system volume 60, close to 1/6th the way into the room. Windows open. Measured at the center of the couch which is 12'/3.7m from the speakers.

BLUE/light: 10ft from wall (port 9.5'/2.9m), toed out, system volume 59, close to 1/3rd the way into the room. Windows closed. Measured in the same spot on the couch as Red, which means 7'/2.1m from the speakers in this measurement. The toe out puts more energy into my floor (trust me on that). Bad room null at 41 Hz with this position, made worse than usual. Notice the port hanging on by a fingernail? Any further out than this and the bass will drop steeply.

The 5' position hits hard, the 10' sound stages room deep, one might even say holographic even though there is narry a tube in the circuit. That's the trade off, deep bass versus deep soundstage.

Even after over a year, I am still sometimes shocked by what these small stand mounts can do, top to bottom, but particularly in the bass. If I wanted to use a sub, I would have gone with different speakers for sure, but for stereo? These are pretty sweet performers.

BTW, the red/10ft bass is very smooth in large part because one of the windows I opened is behind the speakers, a slot port. I tuned that, ending up with a 8"/20cm X 20"/50cm opening that magically calmed everything below 60Hz. If I open a lower window instead of an upper one, things get much worse. Told you my room is complicated!

So, yeah, that worked well. Frankly, that worked out so well I am shocked. Very happy, but shocked.

 

[PristineSound]

Very interesting, I wonder how this compares with Beryllium

https://forum.ascendacoustics.com/home/forum/ascend-acoustics-discussions/loudspeakers-subwoofers-accessories-electronics/5287-diamond-tweeter

 

[Gwreck]

Very interesting, I wonder how this compares with Beryllium

https://forum.ascendacoustics.com/home/forum/ascend-acoustics-discussions/loudspeakers-subwoofers-accessories-electronics/5287-diamond-tweeter

I’m not sure about that but I wonder what the similarities it has with the SVS diamond coated dome.https://www.svsound.com/products/ultra-evolution-titan

 

[PristineSound]

I’m not sure about that but I wonder what the similarities it has with the SVS diamond coated dome.https://www.svsound.com/products/ultra-evolution-titan

The SVS Evolution speakers are very colored and overall just not good speakers. But the tweeter itself, not sure how good it is and not to mention, the Diamond is just the coating, there is so much more than just diamond coating, what is the underlying dome material, the dome geometry, the motor structure, etc, etc.

But Dave said the SEAS diamond tweeters are better than Be, I wonder what the difference is though. I also have a pair of speakers with Be tweeters and I can say they are out of this world.