Ascend Sierra 2 Speaker Review

[mitchco]

15dB down @ 12kHZ"? I don't think so.

Way to necro a +3 year old comment... Those speakers were replaced with Neumann's and measured as they should with the same measurement setup. Who knows what was wrong with that pair. Who cares!

Remember that Mitchco doesn't do conventional, translatable measurements that everyone else in the world uses. He does some cockamamie single point at a listening position in a random room thing and imagines it has great value. See this thread for some context.

Aww Jay, you are such a sweetheart! Just for you!

Love and kisses, Mitch

 

[JLGF1]

Who knows what was wrong with that pair. Who cares!

Well, we have two Klippel measurements against your word of mouth so I'd say if you didn't publish your measurements it didn't happen.

This is ASR where negative inuendo needs to be backed up by evidence.

 

[jhaider]

Well, we have two Klippel measurements against your word of mouth so I'd say if you didn't publish your measurements it didn't happen.

This is ASR where negative inuendo needs to be backed up by evidence.

Whatever one thinks of his approach there's no reason provided here to doubt @mitchco's recollection or veracity. If you understand his measurement methods, which deviate materially from the mainstream approach* in that he not only measures from a "listening position" rather than anechoic or quasi-anechoic, but also only captures a single point as measured by an omnidirectional capsule, his result is plausible. Remember we are talking about a loudspeaker with a relatively tall tweeter. Amir's anechoic data clearly show the tweeter rolls off quickly off axis vertically:

So, given the measurement approach and the speaker's vertical off axis response, assuming the speaker was working normally, Occam's Razor suggests the microphone was simply placed too high or too low relative to the tweeter. Assume that, and the anechoic data at about 30 degrees off vertical axis tends to corroborate @mitchco's narrative!

The variance between this measurement approach and the mainstream approach also fully explains Mitch's narrative that a Neumann speaker has more extended top octave response under the same measurement conditions. Neumanns have a wider vertical listening window due to the round tweeter and a highly performant contoured waveguide.

*While Mitch is wont to name-check certain titans of the field, the practice of applying equalization in the statistical region to fit in-a-given-room measurements to a target curve is at odds with their collective body of work, and IMO is an approach grounded in the logical fallacy if Y then X; X, therefore Y. See, e.g. "Again, a room curve is NOT a target, it is a result," and "When all you can measure is a steady-state room curve (some algorithms can do more, but most do not) a "target" room curve has to be the recipe of the day. This is in spite of the extensive knowledge that it is not a reliable means of delivering neutral, uncolored, sound."(And incidentally here is the counter to the "but headphones" argument Mitch made in the "name check" post linked at the top of this endnote.)

 

[JLGF1]

So, given the measurement approach and the speaker's vertical off axis response, assuming the speaker was working normally, Occam's Razor suggests the microphone was simply placed too high or too low relative to the tweeter.

So, you are suggesting that he essentially measured the speaker wrong and those clearly disparaging remarks should not be challenged?

Yes, if you measure wrong you can get bad numbers. I'm not sure that should surprise anyone.

IMO, neither of the other two Klippel measurements suggest the poor numbers he cavalierly threw out (when the speaker is measured properly). I guess that's my point. He claims defective product and I claim user-error.

 

[617]

I remember some review of the behringer 200 band eq back in the day and the guy just let it auto eq a full bandwidth unwindowed measurement.

Iirc a veil was lifted

 

[jmdesignz2]

Would love to see the most recent version of these re-measured or the Sierra LX...or Philharmonic BMR Monitor 3 way

 

[Ricardojoa]

Erin has the lx and bmr monitor.

 

[tw 2022]

Erin has the lx and bmr monitor.

does Erin currently have the current v2 version of the bmr.?.. I know he was going to review the lx and had done some listening already.....

 

[mziegler]

does Erin currently have the current v2 version of the bmr.?.. I know he was going to review the lx and had done some listening already.....

At this point you should just go to the Ascend forum and find their measurements. There is remarkable consistency between the measurements done by Amir, Erin, and Ascend, because they all use the Klippel system.