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Ascend Acoustics new Klippel optimized speaker

mj30250

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it will be interesting to see if the compromises (if any) in the new speakers overcome the advantages or vice versa.. i have a feeling the 2ex's are going to be hard to beat out...
They have arrived, but sadly I won't be able to get any quality listening in until tomorrow evening.

The LXs will clearly annihilate the 2EXs in bass extension and output when run full range. With an 80Hz crossover to subs, it'll be interesting to see how much of that advantage remains. Based on the Klippel plot, the LXs still show a sizable advantage up to 100Hz and a little beyond.

Outside of bass, I'm very curious to hear how the Titan dome performs in my room versus the RAAL in the 2EX. The only better sounding tweeter I've heard in recent years is the larger ribbon in the Sierra towers, so the new tweeter has its work cut out for it. However, it does have much wider vertical dispersion, and should throw a larger soundstage. This could be an advantage in my room as the speakers aren't positioned optimally. How much acoustic guitar goodness I'm giving up in exchange remains to be heard.
 

TurtlePaul

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Going back to the sensitivity discussion: at 81.4 dB/W the Sierra LX with a 100 watt amp would be equivalent to an 84.4 dB/W normal bookshelf speaker with a 50 watt amp, an 87.4 dB/W 2.5-way floor standing speaker with a 25 watt amp or a 90.4 dB/W high-efficiency horn speaker with a 12.5 watt amp. That is pretty inefficient and I would consider bigger amps than 100 watts if bigger rooms with reference volumes are in the cards.

I wouldn't just calculate the max sound pressure by looking at the dB/W and calling for the amp wattage. You are going to want to have some headroom because music is dynamic and hitting the limit of an amp is very very bad. Also, I believe that the sensitivity calculation is averaged over a range, so you will want an amp that can go full volume even if the note is right at the speakers absolute minimum impedance (which would result in the highest power figures).
 

tw 2022

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They have arrived, but sadly I won't be able to get any quality listening in until tomorrow evening.

The LXs will clearly annihilate the 2EXs in bass extension and output when run full range. With an 80Hz crossover to subs, it'll be interesting to see how much of that advantage remains. Based on the Klippel plot, the LXs still show a sizable advantage up to 100Hz and a little beyond.

Outside of bass, I'm very curious to hear how the Titan dome performs in my room versus the RAAL in the 2EX. The only better sounding tweeter I've heard in recent years is the larger ribbon in the Sierra towers, so the new tweeter has its work cut out for it. However, it does have much wider vertical dispersion, and should throw a larger soundstage. This could be an advantage in my room as the speakers aren't positioned optimally. How much acoustic guitar goodness I'm giving up in exchange remains to be heard.
Yeah the difference in the tweeters is my focus as well..the mid driver is interesting, but with a sub the differences should be minimal...
 

muad

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What are the new adjusted tonal balance BMRs? What was changed? Not seeing any mention on PHA's website.
Talking to Dennis, the latest version (the one with the new sb ceramic driver), has the treble is shelved down 2db compared to the piano black ones that he sold right before shutting down. He said that the response should be downsloping, similar to the floorstander bmr as seen in audioholics measurements.
 

Ciobi69

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Going back to the sensitivity discussion: at 81.4 dB/W the Sierra LX with a 100 watt amp would be equivalent to an 84.4 dB/W normal bookshelf speaker with a 50 watt amp, an 87.4 dB/W 2.5-way floor standing speaker with a 25 watt amp or a 90.4 dB/W high-efficiency horn speaker with a 12.5 watt amp. That is pretty inefficient and I would consider bigger amps than 100 watts if bigger rooms with reference volumes are in the cards.

I wouldn't just calculate the max sound pressure by looking at the dB/W and calling for the amp wattage. You are going to want to have some headroom because music is dynamic and hitting the limit of an amp is very very bad. Also, I believe that the sensitivity calculation is averaged over a range, so you will want an amp that can go full volume even if the note is right at the speakers absolute minimum impedance (which would result in the highest power figures).
TThat is what I was thinking you need a lot of watt if you want to listen at you know 80-90db with dynamics passeges in like good mixed music for example orchestral, up to 15-20db vs compressed music 5 db dynamic range
 
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RMW_NJ

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I have a NC252 based amp, sit about 17ft away and have the volume near maxed out. I need more power. I have an old Parasound HCA amp that puts out lots of power, but also weighs like 50lbs and acts as a space heater in addition to an amplifier.

On another note, the -3 point in my room is about 25hz. I think the S400 was around 38hz.
 
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Smitty2k1

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I have a NC252 based amp, sit about 17ft away and have the volume near maxed out. I need more power. I have an old Parasound HCA amp that puts out lots of power, but also weighs like 50lbs. and acts as a space heater in addition to an amplifier.

On another note, the -3 point in my room is about 25hz. I think the S400 was around 38hz.
Here I thought the NC252 could power anything!
 

HooStat

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I have a NC252 based amp, sit about 17ft away and have the volume near maxed out. I need more power. I have an old Parasound HCA amp that puts out lots of power, but also weighs like 50lbs. and acts as a space heater in addition to an amplifier.

On another note, the -3 point in my room is about 25hz. I think the S400 was around 38hz.
Wow. Could it possibly be that the preamp output is the limiting factor and not the amp?
 

mj30250

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17 feet is a sizable distance. If you're running these full-range and pushing to reference levels, I could see being slightly headroom-limited with a 200wpc amp. Curious what SPL he is seeing at volume near max.
 

Matias

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I have a NC252 based amp, sit about 17ft away and have the volume near maxed out. I need more power. I have an old Parasound HCA amp that puts out lots of power, but also weighs like 50lbs. and acts as a space heater in addition to an amplifier.

On another note, the -3 point in my room is about 25hz. I think the S400 was around 38hz.
Time to get an NC502 based amp. Or 1ET4070SA or NC1200 or NC2k. :p
 

mj30250

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Some very early seat-of-the-pants LX reactions:

As I am unable to perform even a sighted A/B test, never mind a double-blind test, I spent some time blasting the 2EXs today in anticipation of hooking up the LXs. I turned off all room correction / EQ and ran them full-range in Pure Direct. I'm very familiar with the sound of them, and there were no surprises to be found while doing this. They're fantastic speakers, but a little disadvantaged in the compromised space that they're forced to reside in in the family room (up somewhat high and closer together than is optimal). The one and only complaint I have about them is that they sound a bit confined and constrained at times. This is more likely a result of their positioning than of an inherent weakness.

Then the LXs went up (also in Pure Direct) and I performed a quick and dirty level match (the measured difference between the 2EX and LX was between 2 and 3dB). So with of all the perils and flaws of acoustic memory and expectation bias in place and ready to muck things up, here we go...

Yes, the LXs pump out much more bass than the 2EXs do. I was more surprised at the additional mid-bass energy than the deeper extension, which was also obvious. For me, I would certainly still involve subs for music and HT, not only to get that extra bit of extension, but because in this room the speakers reside in a bass null. Hence, low frequency placement flexibility is essential for me. That said, I've never heard so much clean, distortion-free bass output from a true bookshelf speaker. Their impressive performance here should make sub integration easier and more seamless.

Beyond bass frequencies, they do clearly throw a larger soundstage than the 2EXs, which barely changes at all when standing up and down and listening at different points in the room. For me, this was their biggest advantage over the 2EXs. Much of the constrained aspect to 2EXs sound was gone, and what remained I lay at the feet of the compromised placement. The LXs still aren't going to match quality towers in this regard, but the wider dispersion really helps them to overcome the positioning disadvantage. What was also surprising was the effect that this seemed to have on vocals. The 2EXs are wonderful with vocals, as are these, but there seems to be just a little extra dimension to them with the LXs.

Now we come to the RAAL ribbons versus the Titan dome tweeters. As far as speakers I've recently owned, I'd rank their tweeter performance as follows, starting with the best:

Sierra RAAL towers
Sierra 2EXs
Revel F226Bes
Emotiva T2+s

My acoustic guitar benchmark tracks are Keith Don't Go (Nils Lofgren) and Poor Lonesome Me (Eugene Ruffolo). Honestly, without the benefit of A/Bing, not much about the Nils Logren track stood out as clearly better or worse. I think maybe the LXs lose just a little bit of precision and texture, but I can't say for sure going by memory alone. This changed with the Eugene Ruffolo track. I am very, very familiar with this song, to the point that whenever it's on my wife somehow appears to say, "Oh, testing speakers again, are we???". The opening high-notes of the guitar are pristine on this recording. When listening to this on the RAAL towers, it's seriously like there is a literal guitar being played right next to me. There is nothing missing. The 2EXs come very close to achieving the same effect. The LXs...sound really great, but don't quite hit the surreal level I've heard from the RAAL ribbons. The LXs actually reminded me almost completely of the Revel towers in this area, which is certainly not a knock on them as they sound great as well, it's just not quite the same as the ribbon speakers. At this point I'd put them on par with the Revel's Be tweeters in the list above.

Anyway, lots more listening to do after rolling in the subs and EQing.
 

jae

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Are these shipping out yet? Considering ordering a pair
 

Haint

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Some very early seat-of-the-pants LX reactions:

As I am unable to perform even a sighted A/B test, never mind a double-blind test, I spent some time blasting the 2EXs today in anticipation of hooking up the LXs. I turned off all room correction / EQ and ran them full-range in Pure Direct. I'm very familiar with the sound of them, and there were no surprises to be found while doing this. They're fantastic speakers, but a little disadvantaged in the compromised space that they're forced to reside in in the family room (up somewhat high and closer together than is optimal). The one and only complaint I have about them is that they sound a bit confined and constrained at times. This is more likely a result of their positioning than of an inherent weakness.

Then the LXs went up (also in Pure Direct) and I performed a quick and dirty level match (the measured difference between the 2EX and LX was between 2 and 3dB). So with of all the perils and flaws of acoustic memory and expectation bias in place and ready to muck things up, here we go...

Yes, the LXs pump out much more bass than the 2EXs do. I was more surprised at the additional mid-bass energy than the deeper extension, which was also obvious. For me, I would certainly still involve subs for music and HT, not only to get that extra bit of extension, but because in this room the speakers reside in a bass null. Hence, low frequency placement flexibility is essential for me. That said, I've never heard so much clean, distortion-free bass output from a true bookshelf speaker. Their impressive performance here should make sub integration easier and more seamless.

Beyond bass frequencies, they do clearly throw a larger soundstage than the 2EXs, which barely changes at all when standing up and down and listening at different points in the room. For me, this was their biggest advantage over the 2EXs. Much of the constrained aspect to 2EXs sound was gone, and what remained I lay at the feet of the compromised placement. The LXs still aren't going to match quality towers in this regard, but the wider dispersion really helps them to overcome the positioning disadvantage. What was also surprising was the effect that this seemed to have on vocals. The 2EXs are wonderful with vocals, as are these, but there seems to be just a little extra dimension to them with the LXs.

Now we come to the RAAL ribbons versus the Titan dome tweeters. As far as speakers I've recently owned, I'd rank their tweeter performance as follows, starting with the best:

Sierra RAAL towers
Sierra 2EXs
Revel F226Bes
Emotiva T2+s

My acoustic guitar benchmark tracks are Keith Don't Go (Nils Lofgren) and Poor Lonesome Me (Eugene Ruffolo). Honestly, without the benefit of A/Bing, not much about the Nils Logren track stood out as clearly better or worse. I think maybe the LXs lose just a little bit of precision and texture, but I can't say for sure going by memory alone. This changed with the Eugene Ruffolo track. I am very, very familiar with this song, to the point that whenever it's on my wife somehow appears to say, "Oh, testing speakers again, are we???". The opening high-notes of the guitar are pristine on this recording. When listening to this on the RAAL towers, it's seriously like there is a literal guitar being played right next to me. There is nothing missing. The 2EXs come very close to achieving the same effect. The LXs...sound really great, but don't quite hit the surreal level I've heard from the RAAL ribbons. The LXs actually reminded me almost completely of the Revel towers in this area, which is certainly not a knock on them as they sound great as well, it's just not quite the same as the ribbon speakers. At this point I'd put them on par with the Revel's Be tweeters in the list above.

Anyway, lots more listening to do after rolling in the subs and EQing.

How about a picture of the final product MJ, I'm curious what they look like.
 

muad

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How are these with classic rock, or bad recordings? I listen to many different genres and from some extreme off axis positions (living room floor, kitchen etc). Just wondering if these would fit the bill. Thanks!!!

Anyone have any pictures of them? The ascend website only has renders.
 

AscendDF

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Are these shipping out yet? Considering ordering a pair

We have completely sold out of our first production run (we air-shipped in a limited supply of woofers and tweeters) The bulk of the woofers and tweeters are coming by sea-freight and will likely be here in 6 weeks or so, at which time we will immediately resume production and shipping. Please note that the current pre-order pricing will expire once the shipment gets close to us.
 

jae

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We have completely sold out of our first production run (we air-shipped in a limited supply of woofers and tweeters) The bulk of the woofers and tweeters are coming by sea-freight and will likely be here in 6 weeks or so, at which time we will immediately resume production and shipping. Please note that the current pre-order pricing will expire once the shipment gets close to us.
Thanks for the response, got the response you sent me on FB as well. I sent over an e-mail with the information requested.
 

mj30250

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How about a picture of the final product MJ, I'm curious what they look like.
Sorry for the weird daycare environment and reflections, I snapped this quickly after unboxing the speakers last week.

LX.png


Edit: Better picture of the drivers...

LX2.png
 
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mj30250

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How are these with classic rock, or bad recordings? I listen to many different genres and from some extreme off axis positions (living room floor, kitchen etc). Just wondering if these would fit the bill. Thanks!!!

Like any accurate, resolving speaker, they're going to let you hear everything on a given recording, both good and bad.

As far as classic rock is concerned, they're better than any passive 2-way speaker I've heard (and better than many 3-ways). I ran through Zeppelin II over the weekend (not exactly a pristine hi-fi mix), and at very loud volumes they had absolutely no problem filling a large space with clean, composed sound. I've listened to them a lot from the kitchen (a good distance away and at between 70-80 degrees off-axis). Tonality remained spot-on and they had a very full sound even there. As I mentioned above, given their strong bass capabilities and flat response on and off-axis, they are very flexible, and as long as you don't locate them in an especially poor acoustic environment, quite room-friendly.

Also, if anyone is interested in any further subjective impressions, I posted this on Ascend's forums a few days ago:

I'm working from home today and my wife scooped up the kids and left for a few hours. I ran through a variety of tracks (jazz, acoustic, orchestral, vocal, rock, electronic, and metal) on the LXs in Pure Direct at very high volumes (averaged about 89dB with some 104dB peaks measured at the MLP 11' distant from the speakers). They just ate everything up and stayed extremely well composed. They sounded like they had plenty more to give if asked, but in the interests of my long-term hearing I didn't go further than that.

I then rolled in the sub, ran room correction, and applied some EQ. I actually got the smoothest bass response in this room crossing the LXs at 60Hz. They sounded terrific, extremely well-balanced, and much bigger than they look. It'd be fun to put these behind an acoustically transparent curtain and watch peoples' reactions as they finally see where all of that huge sound is coming from. At this point, I'm too far distant from them to make any valid comparisons with the 2EXs, but on their own, the LXs are just superb. If I were to forced to summarize the two, I think that with certain genres of music, a good room that allows for proper positioning, and staying in or around the sweet spot, I'd prefer the 2EXs. For larger, more difficult rooms and positioning situations, the LXs are simply more flexible and crank up the dynamics a bit for harder rock and the like.

I'm really trying to justify keeping the 2EXs as well, but I just don't know where I'd put them.
 
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bkdc

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Is it just these speakers or all of Ascend speakers? IIRC on AVS a couple of years ago, Dave said they make the cabinets in Southern Cal.
Dina told me that the manufacturer of the domestic cabinets is having issues and having trouble supplying Ascend. Supplier problems.
 

bkdc

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I have a NC252 based amp, sit about 17ft away and have the volume near maxed out. I need more power. I have an old Parasound HCA amp that puts out lots of power, but also weighs like 50lbs and acts as a space heater in addition to an amplifier.

On another note, the -3 point in my room is about 25hz. I think the S400 was around 38hz.
That is crazy. Have you had a hearing test recently? I’ve never thought of speakers/amplifiers as an electric vampire (except class A space heaters) but I may change my mind. I guess you should look an NC2k.
 
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